American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[swamt]

I would hope your right but I think the court cases the company brought is so they can slow the process and take even longer to increase our contracts. I didn’t use to believe that and they wanted a deal done but it would seem they really don’t give a s&#t about us at all and prefer us frustrated and down and our union just keeps helping them out

I also agree. Seems since they offered the SWA wage scale to the mechanics, they now know what it is going to cost them (at a minimum) and maybe they are trying their best to put it off as long as possible, just hope this doesn't go too long for you guys...

 

[NYer]

I also agree. Seems since they offered the SWA wage scale to the mechanics, they now know what it is going to cost them (at a minimum) and maybe they are trying their best to put it off as long as possible, just hope this doesn't go too long for you guys...

Disagree. Pay rates doesn't make them shy. They've given several pay raises to different groups outside contracts.

Their goal has been, and will be, to modify the items that other airlines have already modified like the Scope language, the medical and the retirement language. They won't make a deal unless they get those changes.

Pay rates are like fuel, for the most part and especially after everyone stopped hedging, where the cost is the same for everyone.

They're may not spend as much as everyone else in pay, but the other items they want offsets that savings with larger expenses. Them stalling, if they are, isn't about pay it's about getting industry compatible language.

 

[NYer]

AA has been playing the exact same play book as SWA has already played to a "T".
It will be extremely hard for the co. to win their suit at SWA. AA? Maybe not so hard since the leader(s) were boasting and threatening a job action to the president of AA on camera, and I believe they even put some in writing. Man you guys really have some smart leaders running this asso. you were all forced into...

It isn't necessarily an SWA playbook. This stuff has happened over and over the last couple of decades. That's why it's so easy to see what's going to happen.

It's only a surprise to those not aware of the industry and what happens at other airlines.

Just recently, Atlas Air has gone through the same thing, including their appeal reaffirming the lower court's decision on their injunction.

They were also accused of a slowdown including overtime avoidance.

To me, the interesting part of the SWA saga is how AMFA has tried to have the company lawsuit withdrawn in exchange for the withdrawal of their own lawsuit. SWA didn't jump on that. The offer and the fact it wasn't accepted leads one to believe the union case isn't that strong. I'm sure you'll disagree.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Tulsa to add 400 MX jobs....If only you guys had better scope.......oh never mind.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business...cle_beaad2af-89c9-55e2-a242-85d5dfc997d0.html

 

[bigjets]

Tulsa to add 400 MX jobs....If only you guys had better scope.......oh never mind.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business...cle_beaad2af-89c9-55e2-a242-85d5dfc997d0.html

Clearly AA is trying to destroy our profession

Since the association met with the NMB, each mechanic has lost out on $600 cash alone (not counting OT and 2 days off) and with another holiday coming and going that’s an additional $1000 for that day in just cash.

Don’t even think about the 401k match, sick time, line pay, shift diff, etc etc

 

[cltrat]

Disagree. Pay rates doesn't make them shy. They've given several pay raises to different groups outside contracts.

They goal has been, and will be, to modify the items that other airlines have already modified like the Scope language, the medical and the retirement language. They won't make a deal unless they get those changes.

Pay rates are like fuel, for the most part and especially after everyone stopped hedging, where the cost is the same for everyone.

They're may not spend as much as everyone else in pay, but the other items they want offsets that savings with larger expenses. Them stalling, if they are, isn't about pay it's about getting industry compatible language.

Well if they want those to be like other airlines then I want the profit sharing to be like the other airlines,but you don’t hear the cheap fks mentioning that

 

[NYer]

Well if they want those to be like other airlines then I want the profit sharing to be like the other airlines,but you don’t hear the cheap fks mentioning that

Actually, they offered an enhanced profit sharing to the pilots. That's usually a flow through item so it may come to the rest of us, but that makes the scope and medical less likely to have big changes from the Company proposal.

 

[swamt]

It isn't necessarily an SWA playbook. This stuff has happened over and over the last couple of decades. That's why it's so easy to see what's going to happen.

It's only a surprise to those not aware of the industry and what happens at other airlines.

Just recently, Atlas Air has gone through the same thing, including their appeal reaffirming the lower court's decision on their injunction.

They were also accused of a slowdown including overtime avoidance.

To me, the interesting part of the SWA saga is how AMFA has tried to have the company lawsuit withdrawn in exchange for the withdrawal of their own lawsuit. SWA didn't jump on that. The offer and the fact it wasn't accepted leads one to believe the union case isn't that strong. I'm sure you'll disagree.

Dude, it was AA playing the exact same play book. If you do not know that then you are out of touch. Trust me, all the mechanics know it's the same play book.
As far as the suits go, stay tuned...

 

[Tim Nelson]

Actually, they offered an enhanced profit sharing to the pilots. That's usually a flow through item so it may come to the rest of us, but that makes the scope and medical less likely to have big changes from the Company proposal.

parker gave pilots a better PS at Usair. So, nothing flow thru here.
The history is important though as it may show the union's plan of treason.
If Parker is offering the pilots more, then where is he getting it from or who is going to pay for it?
Last time, he cashed out the iam, and agreed to eliminate our profit sharing plan by agreeing that 12 small america west stations would stay iam. A total of less than 400 members, but the iam sold it by saying this company (usair) only paid out profits once in 20 years.

You may be right NYer but i think the reverse will happen, based on previous actions of usair negotiations. All the same players.
I can see the association cashing out our profit sharing to pay for the damages. It wont say that, but it will intentionally undervalue the plan.
Speculative, at this time, but ive learned that we get hosed.

 

[NYer]

Dude, it was AA playing the exact same play book. If you do not know that then you are out of touch. Trust me, all the mechanics know it's the same play book.
As far as the suits go, stay tuned...

The point is, this playbook has been around for quite a long time. This isn't new, we just act like it is.

SWA seems to be adding a page in the book because of their refusal to settle the legal issues. Getting a favorable CBA wasn't enough, they're going for more.

Hope the Association is paying attention to that and the Atlas Air case.

 

[NYer]

parker gave pilots a better PS at Usair. So, nothing flow thru here.
The history is important though as it may show the union's plan of treason.
If Parker is offering the pilots more, then where is he getting it from or who is going to pay for it?
Last time, he cashed out the iam, and agreed to eliminate our profit sharing plan by agreeing that 12 small america west stations would stay iam. A total of less than 400 members, but the iam sold it by saying this company (usair) only paid out profits once in 20 years.

You may be right NYer but i think the reverse will happen, based on previous actions of usair negotiations. All the same players.
I can see the association cashing out our profit sharing to pay for the damages. It wont say that, but it will intentionally undervalue the plan.
Speculative, at this time, but ive learned that we get hosed.

It's a different airline with different finances and a different industry, PS is part of the equation at other airlines.

It may be that we haven't seen how they'll offset the PS, but it's on their table.

It would be very hard for the Association to refuse an enhancement even if it modified the Scope (doubtful airline would make that exchange)

The Association, more like the TWU side, has been very vocal about an enhanced PS. If offered, they won't be able to push it away. If anything, they'll try to use it as an example of what their "bloody summer" was able to gain.

 

[V.O. Reason]

It's a different airline with different finances and a different industry, PS is part of the equation at other airlines.

It may be that we haven't seen how they'll offset the PS, but it's on their table.

It would be very hard for the Association to refuse an enhancement even if it modified the Scope (doubtful airline would make that exchange)

The Association, more like the TWU side, has been very vocal about an enhanced PS. If offered, they won't be able to push it away. If anything, they'll try to use it as an example of what their "bloody summer" was able to gain.

I would much rather see PS dumped for higher long term wages.
We would be locked into that without being concerned of profits

 

[NYer]

I would much rather see PS dumped for higher long term wages.
We would be locked into that without being concerned of profits

Unlikely to happen just because of that reason, it would be locked in.

 

[swamt]

The point is, this playbook has been around for quite a long time. This isn't new, we just act like it is.

SWA seems to be adding a page in the book because of their refusal to settle the legal issues. Getting a favorable CBA wasn't enough, they're going for more.

Hope the Association is paying attention to that and the Atlas Air case.

Not really adding a page, but the co. is extremely butt hurt about AMFA holding out and playing the co's game better than they did. In the end, the man that got it done came in and got it done by moving a good distance in AMFA's favor and even breaking the top number that GK had put on it by a few million and leaving article 2 scope completely unchanged.
By bringing in KK and getting it done was a great move by GK. The moral has picked up and if he can get back the relationship previously had between SWA and AMFA, then he has done his job well, all the mechanics are hopeful he can do it...

 

[NYer]

Not really adding a page, but the co. is extremely butt hurt about AMFA holding out and playing the co's game better than they did. In the end, the man that got it done came in and got it done by moving a good distance in AMFA's favor and even breaking the top number that GK had put on it by a few million and leaving article 2 scope completely unchanged.
By bringing in KK and getting it done was a great move by GK. The moral has picked up and if he can get back the relationship previously had between SWA and AMFA, then he has done his job well, all the mechanics are hopeful he can do it...

C'mon. The old CBA had an LOA about outsourcing maintenance which had a drop dead provision. The TA turned down didn't reinstate the outsourcing, but the TA after the legal issues reintroduced an LOA with outsourcing, including foreign outsourcing.

SWA got more money, but SWA got to keep outsourcing language that would have gone away with the first TA.