April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[freedom]

I would like to think I am a bit concerned for my country , if that makes me a patriot so be it . ... and yes , the homeland SHOULD be cleansed of people who are not legally suppose to be here .... (it's called deportation, a humane and civilized procedure that is carried out in every developed nation )

"Many if not most of these are demonstrably jobs that most unemployed Americans do not want and will not take."

you've been brainwashed .............. jobs that Americans will not take ... I've heard that for years ... So Americans won't do construction ? They won't do janitorial work ? They won't do plumbing ? They won't work in fast food restaurants ? They don't want to do carpentry ? They don't want to work in warehouses ?

IT'S NOT THAT WE DON'T WANT TO WORK , BUT WE WILL NOT WORK FOR BREAD CURUMBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got an idea chock , let's lower our current wages at US Air down to min wage with no benefits ... Then after the illegal immigrants are legalized they can come in , and people can say "their just doing the job Americans are too lazy to do and or don't want to do "

Shame on you for disregarding the rest of blue collar working America simply because YOU'VE been working in a field that's immune to illegal immigration courtesy of our background checks ...

Geez I had no idea you were an apologist for those who've come to knock down Americans blue collar class .... Seriously chock , you think it's cool that we've got all these people flooding into our country trying to get into whatever employment they can at whatever wage their given ? I mean it's like a giant mass of SCABS here to undercut our work force and your OK with that ?

your a big boy chock , I shouldn't have to bust out the stats so you can figure out what's going on around you, I trust that you have enough basic intellect to put two and two together .

 

[Kev3188]

...I trust that you have enough basic intellect to put two and two together .

He did, and arrived at "4" very nicely...

 

[ChockJockey]

I would like to think I am a bit concerned for my country , if that makes me a patriot so be it . ... and yes , the homeland SHOULD be cleansed of people who are not legally suppose to be here .... (it's called deportation, a humane and civilized procedure that is carried out in every developed nation )

"Many if not most of these are demonstrably jobs that most unemployed Americans do not want and will not take."

you've been brainwashed .............. jobs that Americans will not take ... I've heard that for years ... So Americans won't do construction ? They won't do janitorial work ? They won't do plumbing ? They won't work in fast food restaurants ? They don't want to do carpentry ? They don't want to work in warehouses ?

That's funny, I've actually worked with undocumented immigrants in construction, warehousing, and foodservice. Many exhibit a work ethic that Americans used to be renown for, many of them would, and in fact do make good Americans. Some were indeed highly skilled, and certainly made more than you or I. I've also known a lot of unemployed Americans who would not dig ditches in 115 degrees for minimum wage or clean the urine pools out from under urinals for the same.

I've got an idea chock , let's lower our current wages at US Air down to min wage with no benefits ... Then after the illegal immigrants are legalized they can come in , and people can say "their just doing the job Americans are too lazy to do and or don't want to do "

Shame on you for disregarding the rest of blue collar working America simply because YOU'VE been working in a field that's immune to illegal immigration courtesy of our background checks ...

Okay.

Geez I had no idea you were an apologist for those who've come to knock down Americans blue collar class .... Seriously chock , you think it's cool that we've got all these people flooding into our country trying to get into whatever employment they can at whatever wage their given ? I mean it's like a giant mass of SCABS here to undercut our work force and your OK with that ?

No, I just don't see it in ominous, theatrical (childish) terms. I will be the first to say we need comprehensive immigration reform. I do not think weeding out and rounding up 11 million people would be feasible, and would almost certainly cost more than the impact they have on the economy anyway. I am certainly not okay with creating the police state apparatus necessary to do just that. It's the same problem of security versus freedom, and you sound like a person who would give away much indeed in order to be secure from the unwashed mass of scabs. My enemy is not and never has been an honest person looking for work, especially if he or she risks his life to find some as so many do. I could tell you the stories I've heard, but I realize trying to say anything to you about empathy, respect or common decency is a waste of time.

What the U.S. is suffering at the hands of illegal immigrants is a fraction of what Latin Americans have suffered at the hands of U.S. involvement and intervention. In the last few decades hundreds of thousands have been murdered or disappeared by regimes propped up, equipped, armed, and funded by the U.S. government. Maybe if you were more familiar with the American foreign and economic policy as concerns Latin America and what it's cost its people you'd realize how absurd and self-centered your entitled complaints sound in comparison.

your a big boy chock , I shouldn't have to bust out the stats so you can figure out what's going on around you, I trust that you have enough basic intellect to put two and two together .

It's not a matter of my size as much as it is you being unable to back up your assertion that illegal immigration is either the largest drag on our economy or our greatest national security concern. I don't actually expect you to prove it since I know it's not true.

 

[roabilly]

I can tell by Freedom's negative rating here on this site (-168) that he has a long history of interjecting, xenophobic, preposterous, and just plain STUPID content into these forums! Congratulations Freedom… at least you are a proud reject!

 

[freedom]

Well first , let me say to you chock , that I too have worked with illegal immigrants , and YES they are some of the hardest workers that you will ever meet in your life , good honest people too , come to work on time , don't cause problems , stay until the job is done ... I don't BLAME the illegal immigrants for coming here ... I would do exactly what they have done in their situation , it's the logical decision( you can make WAY more money working in the US than many of the countries these people have come from ) ...

"What the U.S. is suffering at the hands of illegal immigrants is a fraction of what Latin Americans have suffered at the hands of U.S. involvement and intervention. In the last few decades hundreds of thousands have been murdered or disappeared by regimes propped up, equipped, armed, and funded by the U.S. government"

Guilt is not a good enough reason for me to turn over many of the jobs that America's teenage youth and blue collar class work at to make a living .

" I do not think weeding out and rounding up 11 million people would be feasible, and would almost certainly cost more than the impact they have on the economy anyway. I am certainly not okay with creating the police state apparatus necessary to do just that"

You don't need a police state to remove all 11 million illegal immigrants by force, you just need to institue E-verify .

you want me to PROVE to you that illegal immigrants are a drag on the economy ? didn't I just explain to you that the Presidents aunt sucked up a public housing unit in Mass for over a decade ? Have you ever been to a hospital ? talked to the nurses or doctors lately ? you do understand that they don't have medical coverage right ? They take out FAR more from the system than they put in ... you have heard that there's this little problem of them driving without insurance right ?

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/north-dakota-man-sentenced-to-prison-in-illegal-workers-case/article_541f9744-bef4-11e2-88d6-001a4bcf887a.html

( a man employed 6 or more illegal workers for his roofing company , by hiring illegals chock instead of American's he doesn't have to pay as much , this drives down the Roofer pay scale and makes it harder for honest companies to compete )

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/illegals-crossing-border-triples/2013/05/01/id/502367

(talk of Amnesty is causing more and more illegal immigrants to flood into the country , it acts as a magnet )

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/the-panda-express-eleven/Content?oid=1093148

( a dozen illegal immgrants working at Panda Express with stolen ID's )

I could go on for PAGES listing link after link ...

I don't get it , you guys are suppose to be union Members , but your FINE with people who want to come in and work for less ... It contradicts everything we stand for ... what about the Americans who have to compete with these people for work ? why don't you seem to care about them ?

 

[Black Magic]

Freedom, I'm with you on this one. It just comes down to "more people more problems!!" Look at California as what is becoming of the rest of the nation..nothing but debt and bankruptcy as the state has to provide social programs to illegals who feel they are intitled to be here. The USA is at a breaking point where it cannot sustain this influx of illegal immigrants err undocumented democrats who bleed the nation for freebies and benefits. All I can say to them is sorry the USA is full! Go back to your own country and fix your own problems!!

 

[roabilly]

I’ll tell you what Freedom, it’s your patriotic duty go out, and identify every single one of the 11 million (11,000,000) undocumented immigrants in this great nation. Get their names and addresses and post them here in this forum, then we will ALL lobby to have them de-ported!

The Government can’t do it, the CIA can’t do it, and the FBI can’t do it… just think what a hero you would be-- Rush Limbaugh would let guest on his radio program!

 

[wings396]

700... why does Josh (737832), a banker in BOS care about what kind of agreement anyone gets? Is he invested in US stock? AA stock? UA stock?

What is his deal? What is he dong in an Airline Forum to begin with?

I've often wondered that myself. It's no secret that he has a real hard-on for the IAM and US as well. Now that he is dropping names within the IAM as if he has some in depth knowledge of their workings, makes me wonder if he really is what he claims. Seems more like a disgruntled US emp that was done wrong by the IAM at some point in his life.

 

[freedom]

I’ll tell you what Freedom, it’s your patriotic duty go out, and identify every single one of the 11 million (11,000,000) undocumented immigrants in this great nation. Get their names and addresses and post them here in this forum, then we will ALL lobby to have them de-ported!

The Government can’t do it, the CIA can’t do it, and the FBI can’t do it… just think what a hero you would be-- Rush Limbaugh would let guest on his radio program!

can't do it ... or won't do it ?

We can send a man to the moon , but we can't find the people who are in our country illegally , even though in this day and age we have these things called computers , ID cards , data bases ...

So that's your solution then ... don't even try ... just let them flood in , take as many blue collar jobs as they can get their hands on ...

face it you don't WANT action to be taken ... I don't need Rush to tell me what to do .. I MYSELF could figure out a way to deport the vast majority of illegal immigrants ...it's not rocket science ...

Go on , go on and mock my concern for people LIKE US .... blue collar workers ... DON'T YOU EVEN CARE that people LIKE YOU AND ME are being hurt by illegal job competition ? why don't you care ?

 

[Kev3188]

Freedom, I'm with you on this one. It just comes down to "more people more problems!!" Look at California as what is becoming of the rest of the nation..nothing but debt and bankruptcy...

Not so fast...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/us/californias-new-problem-too-much-money.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[freedom]

Not so fast...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/us/californias-new-problem-too-much-money.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

that's after devastating cuts to social services over the last few years .... So yeah , they squeezed the poor and now viola ,they've got money !

"“We’ve made some brutal cuts,” Mr. Blumenfield said. “There’s a lot of pain that’s been spread across California, and we can’t ignore that"

 

[necigrad]

can't do it ... or won't do it ?

We can send a man to the moon , but we can't find the people who are in our country illegally , even though in this day and age we have these things called computers , ID cards , data bases ...

I MYSELF could figure out a way to deport the vast majority of illegal immigrants ...it's not rocket science ...

Freedom, you obviously don't know anything about government, nor how government can affect the economy and society. There's a reason so few even WANT to be President; it's an exceptionally demanding job where whatever one does they are doing it wrong. Just looking at this little bitty problem like illegal immigration. Using your numbers (don't ceare enough to verify, but they sound reasonable) we'd have to deport 11 million people. Figuring that the transportation would be about $150/per illegal that ALONE is over $1.6 BILLION dollars. Fuiguring that a CBP agent can process 10 a day, with 2 weeks of vacation that's 2500/agent/year. 4400 agents just to deport the 11 million illegals here now. There are approximatly 40,000 CBP agents now, and everyone knows that's not enough. You want to add 10% to a number that is too low already. Not gonna happen. Also note that I have given absolutly no consideration for anyone challenging their depotation.

With that little problem out there, let's look at the economy. Believe it or not, there ARE jobs pretty much everywhere. One of my friends (who's 21 and does not have a college education) got pissed off with her old job and got another in less then a week. In LAS. The jobs are out there, so it's a bit premature to say illegals are taking them all away. In addition, a majority of the illegals work with false documentation or with the States blessing and nonintervention by the Federal government. These people all pay federal, state, and any local income tax. In addition they pay all the sales taxes we do. It gets better. All that income tax they pay through their employer is not subject to refunds. They likely qualify for a refund on some or all of their income tax, but can't file to collect it. That's a windfall in ADDITIONAL revenue for the governments.

Then there's politics and society. Approximatly half the country yells "Let them stay!" while the other half chants "We don't want them here!". Which way do we go? How can you justify picking one way or another? Now let's say we deport (no accusations of racism please!) Jose back to Mexico. While investigating Jose we find his wife Juanita and their four kids. Jose works 60 hours a week, and Juanita another 40. They pay their bills, get their kids to school, and send the extra money to their families in Mexico where they live in poverty. The kids were born here BTW. Do we deport Jose? He's here illegally. What about Juanita? If we deport Jose, what happens if Juanita can't take care of the kids alone? Government assistance. Deport them both and the kids (US citizens) are either forced to go back to Mexico or enter the foster care system. You've now destroyed a family and cause the government to incur even more loss of revenue AND an increase in costs.

Personally I'm all for keeping illegals out. If they didn't get here legally, what will they do once here? Obviously our laws are meaningless to them. That even assums that they are otherwise good people. It's not practical, however, to kick them all out. I believe we should have an amnestly period for ALL illegals to have the opportunity to become legals. With this we need to both strengthen our borders and relax our immigration policies to give due consideration to why people are coming here. I have no idea how many are allowed to emmigrate from Mexico or other countries, but if it's increased some, there will be far fewer people trying to get here illegally. Once all of that is in place we can increase enforcement of illegals; they had their chance, now the risk is in full force.

WTF does this have to do with Fleet Service anyway?

 

[freedom]

The reason I brought up my stance on illegal immigration was one of the commenters on here was like "vote out republicans they suck!" ..... I've been trying to explain that while republicans are not always labor friendly , their stance on illegal immigration is far more favorable to blue collar labor as compared to the Democrats ...

As to removing illegal immigrants, not as hard as you would think .... In the first year of President Obama's term in office , roughly 1.5 Million illegal immigrants were deported ...

Now at 1.6 Billion dollars as you say , that's pure pocket change to this country ... ( every month the Federal Reserve injects 85 BILLION dollars into the economy, our military budget last I recall before the wars was 300 billion dollars a year )

If we increased the level of deportations to 500K a year up from around 400 K ... at half a million a year it would take roughly 8 years to deport 4 million people ... if you combined the removal program with E-verify millions more would self deport .. So within in a decade , we could through coercion and enforcement remove 10 Million people .

As for Amnesty solving our problems , it absolutely will not ... back in the 1980's Regan did amnesty and congress said the problem would be solved .. it wasn't ... Every time you do an Amnesty it only ENCOURAGES more people to come .. because if we've already done it before , its likely to think we will do it again ..if you think about it , for people all over the world living in poverty (one BILLION), it's absolutely worth the risk to come here and try and make it , because people are aware of how lient and lax the US is when it comes to immigration ..

If you want to stop illegal immigration then you have to stop rewarding people for coming here ....This means things like no employment , no citizenship for having babies on US soil ,no free healthcare or elderly housing , no free schooling for their children ....

I know these measures sound harsh , but money doesn't grow on trees , our resources are not unlimited , and they would be better spent on American citizens rather than those who have no regard for our laws ... not to mention the huge wage suppression that illegal immigrants continue to enforce on the economy ... Even legalizing them will not undo the wage and hiring practices that have already been inflicted on our nation .

Roabilly and chock , talk about Globalization , and the rich ... but for some reason are unable to see that illegal immigration stems from the same force that is attempting to tear down every last remnant of this society .. Chock and Roa protest at the fact that the wealthy are now SUPER rich , much more rich than the rest of us ... But when people like myself suggest that if we limited the labor pool wages would rise , i'm somehow off my rocker and that higher wages would be bad for the economy ..

To quote chock jockey

"I've also known a lot of unemployed Americans who would not dig ditches in 115 degrees for minimum wage or clean the urine pools out from under urinals for the same."

You see under the rules of capitalism , when you can't find someone to fill a position because it's too unpleasant or people don't want to do it ( you know manual labor ) .... What SHOULD occur in our system is that wages for the job continue to rise until the position is filled ... In a closed system , that is what has to occur ... But when you can import outside labor .... those wages never have to rise ...and the rich LOVE that , business owners love it because they don't have to spend a penny more on their workers .... The wealthy love it because they get all of their service jobs that the need done such as washing their cars , yard work , home construction done cheap ...

Many of you on here complain about how the wealthy get too many tax breaks ... well that's what illegal immigration is , another tax break for the wealthy , instead of PAYING American citizens a living wage for their labor in accordance with the rules of our capitalist system ... They cheat the system and take the cheap route out , hurting all of us and suppressing every blue collar workers wages .

 

[ograc]

Sisters and Brothers,
Just spent the day saying goodbye to my son who is shipping out to United States Marines BasicTraining. He believes in this country and the democracy it represents. Enough so that he feels an obligation to serve to protect the liberty and freedom our democracy represents. A freedom and liberty we all enjoy. Our freedom, liberty and right to voice our opinion are granted by those who have and are currently serving in the armed forces. Many who have paid the ultimate sacrifice. Many take this freedom for granted. I ask all to keep the men and women serving and my son in their thoughts and prayers as they defend our country and constitution.

 

[700UW]

I've often wondered that myself. It's no secret that he has a real hard-on for the IAM and US as well. Now that he is dropping names within the IAM as if he has some in depth knowledge of their workings, makes me wonder if he really is what he claims. Seems more like a disgruntled US emp that was done wrong by the IAM at some point in his life.

I have a big surprise coming, it will even shock joshie, cant announce it yet though.