April/May 2013 IAM Fleet Discussions

[necigrad]

I am going to probably say something rather unpopular, but frankly, I have some empathy with the Company's tactics of negotiations, not to say, I like it or it is something which is ideal, but with this merger, the pilots' unresolved issues, having to integrate the different work groups, along with dozens of other matters, I am not surprised Management has been trying to defer as much as possible. From a Management's point-of-view, what's the point of negotiating with US FSAs, only to have to do it again when the AA and US FSAs after the integration in another year? As Management intends to stall, might as well get something for it, and I think reduction in the continued "Swissporting" of stations is something of real value, although I wish the guarantee was longer than a year.

I get what you're saying, and there is some logic to it. You're overlooking one important fact, however. With the exception of the pilots integration, it's all the companies fault. The company chose to merge. The company chose to negotiate TAs that all expired at the same time. The company chose to drag things out. The company chose to devote resources they didn't have to the merger, delaying negotiations out. The company con't complain about their problems when they're the ones causing them.

 

[Kev3188]

From a Management's point-of-view, what's the point of negotiating with US FSAs, only to have to do it again when the AA and US FSAs after the integration in another year?

"Labor peace."

Wall St. expects it, and both US & AA know it.

 

[Jester]

"Labor peace."

Wall St. expects it, and both US & AA know it.

Wall Street also expects and knows that nearly every major airline merger means in order to keep labor peace, there will be an increase in labor costs within the unions too. That was certainly the case with America West and its low wage scales outside of the flight deck. The selling point to this merger was more profits, and Wall Street knows that wages will not stay at their current levels, especially within the pilots group. My point being is that labor unrest will need to wait until after the merger and the unified FSA groups and the resulting bargaining.

I get what you're saying, and there is some logic to it. You're overlooking one important fact, however. With the exception of the pilots integration, it's all the companies fault. The company chose to merge. The company chose to negotiate TAs that all expired at the same time. The company chose to drag things out. The company chose to devote resources they didn't have to the merger, delaying negotiations out. The company con't complain about their problems when they're the ones causing them.

The Company choose to merge because I think secretly it knew this firm's days were numbered without a merger. US isn't a niche carrier limited (yet profitable) market as with AS, nor was it a fairly new airline with relatively modest labor costs as with JB, but it was the 4th largest network carrier with secondary hubs and union groups demanding wage parity to its much larger, better-situation competitors. Frankly, the priority was survival, not negotiating with fleet service workers. I think our day will come after the integration, I just hope those of us in PHX aren't pushed out in the process with little left of the old America West operations after the closure of LAS and PHX hub operations.

 

[ograc]

Wall Street also expects and knows that nearly every major airline merger means in order to keep labor peace, there will be an increase in labor costs within the unions too. That was certainly the case with America West and its low wage scales outside of the flight deck. The selling point to this merger was more profits, and Wall Street knows that wages will not stay at their current levels, especially within the pilots group. My point being is that labor unrest will need to wait until after the merger and the unified FSA groups and the resulting bargaining.
The Company choose to merge because I think secretly it knew this firm's days were numbered without a merger. US isn't a niche carrier limited (yet profitable) market as with AS, nor was it a fairly new airline with relatively modest labor costs as with JB, but it was the 4th largest network carrier with secondary hubs and union groups demanding wage parity to its much larger, better-situation competitors. Frankly, the priority was survival, not negotiating with fleet service workers. I think our day will come after the integration, I just hope those of us in PHX aren't pushed out in the process with little left of the old America West operations after the closure of LAS and PHX hub operations.

Jester,
Labor peace, which translates into appeasing labor, is expected and anticipated by Wall Sreet regarding this merger. The question is when the peace is achieved. Prior to or post merger. The way I see it; from a labor point of view... is labor peace needs to be established prior to integration not after. After integration... labor has lost leverage. The IAM should realize establishing gains in wage, benefits and especially scope should be established before any transition agreement. The time is now to negotiate the necessary improvements in our current CBA for Fleet. The company wants Transition Agreements now. The district should seek their improvements now in section 6 negotiations for Fleet before entering into transition negotiations. The horse before the cart Brother.

 

[ograc]

Wall Street also expects and knows that nearly every major airline merger means in order to keep labor peace, there will be an increase in labor costs within the unions too. That was certainly the case with America West and its low wage scales outside of the flight deck. The selling point to this merger was more profits, and Wall Street knows that wages will not stay at their current levels, especially within the pilots group. My point being is that labor unrest will need to wait until after the merger and the unified FSA groups and the resulting bargaining.
The Company choose to merge because I think secretly it knew this firm's days were numbered without a merger. US isn't a niche carrier limited (yet profitable) market as with AS, nor was it a fairly new airline with relatively modest labor costs as with JB, but it was the 4th largest network carrier with secondary hubs and union groups demanding wage parity to its much larger, better-situation competitors. Frankly, the priority was survival, not negotiating with fleet service workers. I think our day will come after the integration, I just hope those of us in PHX aren't pushed out in the process with little left of the old America West operations after the closure of LAS and PHX hub operations.

Additionally, labor must realize, this merger will take place with or without labor peace. Post integration negotiations will prove to be fruitless IMO. Case in point... the recent UA TA with DL 141.

 

[robbedagain]

I would like to see improvements in the open time currently it is fuzzy in the contract mgmt can and has ability to create lines unnecessarily even when there are other lines yet as happens always in my station at least the mgmt picks the line for the open time agent in my opin thats wrong when there are already other lines for the agent to choose id like to see changes and strong language to prevent that from happening if possible

 

[Jester]

Additionally, labor must realize, this merger will take place with or without labor peace. Post integration negotiations will prove to be fruitless IMO. Case in point... the recent UA TA with DL 141.

And maybe Tim has a point... what the IAM brought to UA FSAs was a disgrace and even an insult to those agents, even though it did offer more pay, but little in the way of scope protections. Maybe the CO and UA FSAs expected that mergers mean more money, but without the contracting out of stations, and maybe they decided to their credit that the TA was unacceptable?

 

[Kev3188]

what the IAM brought to UA FSAs was a disgrace and even an insult to those agents...

Those 2 adjectives aren't nearly strong enough.

 

[ograc]

The time for negotiatied improvements in the current Fleet Service CBA is NOW in Section 6 negotiations. To kick the can down the road and expect better leverage and improvements in Transition Agreement negotiations is a mistake IMO. Better Scope, wages and benefits language NOW not later. We have the leverage now... why not use it?

 

[robbedagain]

I wholly agree with you orgac now is the time and time is of the essence here
the company will try stall tatics but again as you said orgac now we have the leverage

 

[Tim Nelson]

The time for negotiatied improvements in the current Fleet Service CBA is NOW in Section 6 negotiations. To kick the can down the road and expect better leverage and improvements in Transition Agreement negotiations is a mistake IMO. Better Scope, wages and benefits language NOW not later. We have the leverage now... why not use it?

section 6 has more leverage since transition talks have no threat of strike and have the added benefit to the company as negotiating inside the merger as one. Win win for company. Not that anyone will be striking in section 6 but investors definately want known commodities and signed contracts that lead to transition talks. For our members, whether usairways or united, its more than a matter of education since it is also a matter of experience. Those transition talks at united finally failed after years so delaney finally filed section 6. And all the easties know how the america west transition talks meant tiny wage increases, no increase in scope and no snapbacks and the loss of profit sharing. Now is the time and i myself dont mind waiting and keeping everything separate as we stand up for more scope and our retirement along with other items of fairness. regards

 

[The Bagfather]

Off current topic but......According to some sources LAS FSE is opening up a significant number of positions. (15 FT and 20 PT?)
Also some rumor about returning to HUB status. Is this related to the merger? Anybody out there with better info? I haven't scanned this thread so maybe its already been mentioned.

 

[necigrad]

Supposedly LAS is bumping up staffing because of a change in terminals. I haven't heard a thing about becoming a hub, and AA and US don't have that many flights there. Personally I think the numbers you heard are way high too. It might (IMO) be 15-20 TOTAL.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Supposedly LAS is bumping up staffing because of a change in terminals. I haven't heard a thing about becoming a hub, and AA and US don't have that many flights there. Personally I think the numbers you heard are way high too. It might (IMO) be 15-20 TOTAL.

maybe the gambling industry and construction has taken off again in vegas and the airline is simply meeting demand. Dunno but interesting if recalls happen. Keep us posted. regards,

 

[mike33]

Off current topic but......According to some sources LAS FSE is opening up a significant number of positions. (15 FT and 20 PT?)
Also some rumor about returning to HUB status. Is this related to the merger? Anybody out there with better info? I haven't scanned this thread so maybe its already been mentioned.

Not quite....rumor from there is 5 FT...10 PT but we will see