August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[Kev3188]

Good question robbedagain. Im quite sure there will be on or two hub casualties. It will take time though.
For instance, delta just announced today how it will eliminate mem as a hub and there will be a resulting 250 job loss come september 1.
Of course, the party line is that "we need all hubs".
Bwi day las san syr pit...which hub will be gone next as the amr hubs are now factored in?

Good question. BTW, does anyone really believe the "no hubs will close" line, or does it just make people feel a little better in the interim?

MEM has been going through a death by 1000 cuts for awhile now. This latest blow while sad, isn't surprising...

Yes it says they cant do it till a JCBA is reached, but they can sign a helping hand agreement which US and HP did and which let each other work flights.

Helping hands type agreements usually don't end well... Much better to expedite the JCBA process (as much as possible, anyway)...

 

[roabilly]

Regardless of our thoughts on helping-hands… hub closures, and just about everything else we have covered here-- the MERGER looms closer! The BK Judge just approved the disclosure statement, and the creditors will vote to ratify soon!

CB is in negotiations this week… I can only hope that we don’t accept anything less than an industry leading agreement. The new AA will be the largest Airline in the WORLD! In light of the coalition, and the rapid pace this merger is taking toward full consummation... FS has some leverage, if we are patient enough to use it that is....

News Link

WSJ report!

 

[Black Magic]

Regardless of our thoughts on helping-hands… hub closures, and just about everything else we have covered here-- the MERGER looms closer! The BK Judge just approved the disclosure statement, and the creditors will vote to ratify soon!

CB is in negotiations this week… I can only hope that we don’t accept anything less than an industry leading agreement. The new AA will be the largest Airline in the WORLD! In light of the coalition, and the rapid pace this merger is taking toward full consummation... FS has some leverage, if we are patient enough to use it that is....

News Link

WSJ report!

Don't get your hopes up, there's going to be lots of broken hearts around here. US ramp will be lucky if the company agrees to offer the same contract they hammered out in 2 weeks to the TWU...which is far from industry leading.

 

[robbedagain]

black magic i would like to think that may be cb p rez and the rest of the nc team would maximize all of our leverages at this point given the lastest esp with the merger coming and coming fast i do understand where youre coming from with that statement bec of the past but i think may be this time its going to be different given the circumstances and the leverage we have i do hope they will max the leverage out and get an industry leading contract and enhanced scope protection etc

 

[700UW]

they didnt hammer out a cba with the twu, its an MOU that gives them some increases and protections and a path to a JCBA.

 

[roabilly]

they didnt hammer out a cba with the twu, its an MOU that gives them some increases and protections and a path to a JCBA.

Just shows how uninformed, and misleading these malcontents are!

 

[Black Magic]

they didnt hammer out a cba with the twu, its an MOU that gives them some increases and protections and a path to a JCBA.

Doesn't matter regardless..the POINT being made is when the company wants a contract in place they can get it done quick fast and in a hurry. 2 weeks or so with the CBA for AA ramp. However when it comes to a contract with IAM months or years are a sure thing to come. And as surely as the sun will rise I PROMISE the US ramp will never have a contract package that pays more than what the CBA says for the AA ramp!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Black magic, im sure nothing will come easy but i dont think roabillys comments are unreasonable.
It will take time and we must support the nc in this endeavor.
Along the way, we must resist giving the company anything, for instance helping hands agreement.
Our members have helped enuf.
We have leverage because the company is making huge profits and it also needs a deal with us to maximize greater profits.
Either way, it wont be handed to us because corporate greed is worse than ever. regards

 

[Tim Nelson]

Black magic, how can u make that last statement?
The amr agreement is a bankruptcy agreement and devoid of things?
Regards,

 

[roabilly]

Black magic, im sure nothing will come easy but i dont think roabillys comments are unreasonable.
It will take time and we must support the nc in this endeavor.
Along the way, we must resist giving the company anything, for instance helping hands agreement.
Our members have helped enuf.
We have leverage because the company is making huge profits and it also needs a deal with us to maximize greater profits.
Either way, it wont be handed to us because corporate greed is worse than ever. regards

It's been a long...long... long.... time since I've given you a thumbs up! Finally, you are abandoning the political posturing for the betterment of the membership. I just hope it's not another Jekyll/Hyde phase!

 

[700UW]

US didnt negotiate a CBA with the TWU, APFA or the APA.

Its an MOU with some improvements and a path to a joint CBA.

 

[ograc]

Doesn't matter regardless..the POINT being made is when the company wants a contract in place they can get it done quick fast and in a hurry. 2 weeks or so with the CBA for AA ramp. However when it comes to a contract with IAM months or years are a sure thing to come. And as surely as the sun will rise I PROMISE the US ramp will never have a contract package that pays more than what the CBA says for the AA ramp!!

I'm going to hold you to that bold proclamation Black Magic. Just for clarification though... when you say "pays more" are you taking the "narrow minded" focus of hourly compensation or are you referring to the complete compensation package? Again, there is more to economic issues in a contract than just hourly wage. Such as job protection through scope language. Would you agree? On another note... I'm inclined to support a union that holds out... over a union that comes to an agreement in 2 weeks or so over compensation. There are two parties at the negotiating table. If the company wants an agreement with the IAM within 2 weeks I suggest they ante up. In the meantime... there will be labor unrest. Get it!

 

[Black Magic]

I'm going to hold you to that bold proclamation Black Magic. Just for clarification though... when you say "pays more" are you taking the "narrow minded" focus of hourly compensation or are you referring to the complete compensation package? Again, there is more to economic issues in a contract than just hourly wage. Such as job protection through scope language. Would you agree? On another note... I'm inclined to support a union that holds out... over a union that comes to an agreement in 2 weeks or so over compensation. There are two parties at the negotiating table. If the company wants an agreement with the IAM within 2 weeks I suggest they ante up. In the meantime... there will be labor unrest. Get it!

You can hold me to that statement. I'll etch it in stone if I have too. I am talking about a complete compensation package that will be comparable for both AA/US ramp hopefully, it could be even slightly less on the US side. Make no mistake though the company will NOT agree to a contract that pays the IAM US hubs and stations more $$ than the package they have in place with TWU represented ramp. Get used to hearing the infamous "best its going to get" line from the ND team. We can vote down the contract, keep going back and forth with the only result of the company rearranging the numbers with the bottom line being the same.

 

[ChockJockey]

And as surely as the sun will rise I PROMISE the US ramp will never have a contract package that pays more than what the CBA says for the AA ramp!!

So is this the outcome you're hoping for?

 

[ChockJockey]

If was anything like the CLT flights I get with locals in forward and aft bins mixed-in with connects forward and aft, and the CAGs buried behind other gate checks with tight connections, I can feel your pain. I don't understand why it is so difficult to separate the locals and connects, as it is too often a bag salad in forward and aft bins.

There are a good number of careless loads, that is true. I do think it's gotten better since the merger though, I'd say PHL has much improved. Aren't mainline conx, express conx, interline, locals, and locals priority all supposed to be separated? Somewhat of a challenge on a 321 ground time turn with late arriving bags and large numbers of gate checks.