Delta Labor Relations thread.

[topDawg]

I did ask Southwind. But only because he is the voice of anti labor when it comes to anybody and anyone it seems. From all the things I read and what they put up as proof on that FA FB page I think maybe they do need a Union. Or a CBA at least since a few on here are so anti established name labor group. They have pointed out a lot of bad chit that happens to them. And they're not anti company although the opposition really wants to paint them in that light.

One thing to always remember about stuff like FB, sometimes the loudest group is the smallest group. I have quite a few friends who are FAs and not one wants a union. Even one or two that were AFA at NW. I haven't seen the company do anything to them that I would be really upset about. They are treated well and have pretty clear policies.
 

As far as ramp there, thanks again for your opinion. And before someone chimes in why I have an interest? Well because I here at AA have to deal with the company bringing up how things work at DL without a contract. Parker even said it in today's earnings call. So yes ultimately it affects me if the airline I work for has to compete with that labor cost advantage. And have it thrown in our face by the AA negotiators.

no worries, i completely understand why it matters to you. 
As i have said before, that is why I don't get wrapped up in the my airline v your airline pissing match. Simple fact is we all need each other, because management has no problem lumping AA and UA employees in with DL employees when discussions about benefits/work rules/scope come up. 
 

I also think Dawg that a lot of people in other groups don't want ramp to have a Union because they would have zero problem if all of them make only $12.00 with no benefits. Class warfare. And it's a place where the company can go to cut some costs and maybe pass those savings on to someone else in another group?

It never works out that way. 
 
We are going to get our yearly budget and it wont change. Doesn't matter what happens with the pilots, FAs, ramp, above wing etc. 
 
I also think a lot of people like to close their eyes at Delta. "its not that bad" 
just look at all the maintenance people around the web who defend Delta's outsourcing. "they outsourced airframe overhauls to make space for high margin work" oh really? well just where in the f%@k is this work hiding at? They don't need free hangar bay space for more CFM56 overhauls. 

 

[WeAAsles]

One thing to always remember about stuff like FB, sometimes the loudest group is the smallest group. I have quite a few friends who are FAs and not one wants a union. Even one or two that were AFA at NW. I haven't seen the company do anything to them that I would be really upset about. They are treated well and have pretty clear policies.
 
no worries, i completely understand why it matters to you. 
As i have said before, that is why I don't get wrapped up in the my airline v your airline pissing match. Simple fact is we all need each other, because management has no problem lumping AA and UA employees in with DL employees when discussions about benefits/work rules/scope come up. 
 
It never works out that way. 
 
We are going to get our yearly budget and it wont change. Doesn't matter what happens with the pilots, FAs, ramp, above wing etc. 
 
I also think a lot of people like to close their eyes at Delta. "its not that bad" 
just look at all the maintenance people around the web who defend Delta's outsourcing. "they outsourced airframe overhauls to make space for high margin work" oh really? well just where in the f%@k is this work hiding at? They don't need free hangar bay space for more CFM56 overhauls. 

Dude you ever think about changing your name to FOX News? (No insult meant) I consider you the real "Fair and Balanced"

Another reason I like Kev too BTW.

 

[topDawg]

Dude you ever think about changing your name to FOX News? (No insult meant) I consider you the real "Fair and Balanced"

Another reason I like Kev too BTW.

ha. thanks, thats my goal. 
 
When you have the back ground I have, A&P licences, FCC license, Finance degree, Management degree, Executive Masters degree......... you have to be able to look at both sides. 
 
That is why i have said before, if I join a union I want our union leadership to be more than just front line employees. There needs to be some management types to keep everything balanced. I think a big part of why the labor relationships are so toxic in this industry is because both sides only look at their side. They can't look at things from the other sides view point.  

 

[WeAAsles]

ha. thanks, thats my goal. 
 
When you have the back ground I have, A&P licences, FCC license, Finance degree, Management degree, Executive Masters degree......... you have to be able to look at both sides. 
 
That is why i have said before, if I join a union I want our union leadership to be more than just front line employees. There needs to be some management types to keep everything balanced. I think a big part of why the labor relationships are so toxic in this industry is because both sides only look at their side. They can't look at things from the other sides view point.  

I have a High School Diploma. That's it.

Another problem with a lot of Unions is that the members many times vote for the biggest putz's they can find. People who tell them what they want to hear because truth is something that can't be on their menu to be digested. That starts from the floor up. Hopefully by the time they reach the higher levels they've learned enough to be really good at what they do but I'm not sure that's always the case?

Maybe there should be a comprehensive test that a candidate needs to pass before he can run for anything?

 

[southwind]

I did ask Southwind. But only because he is the voice of anti labor when it comes to anybody and anyone it seems. From all the things I read and what they put up as proof on that FA FB page I think maybe they do need a Union. Or a CBA at least since a few on here are so anti established name labor group. They have pointed out a lot of bad chit that happens to them. And they're not anti company although the opposition really wants to paint them in that light.
As far as ramp there, thanks again for your opinion. And before someone chimes in why I have an interest? Well because I here at AA have to deal with the company bringing up how things work at DL without a contract. Parker even said it in today's earnings call. So yes ultimately it affects me if the airline I work for has to compete with that labor cost advantage. And have it thrown in our face by the AA negotiators.
I also think Dawg that a lot of people in other groups don't want ramp to have a Union because they would have zero problem if all of them make only $12.00 with no benefits. Class warfare. And it's a place where the company can go to cut some costs and maybe pass those savings on to someone else in another group?

Excuse me if I'm anti-union and my opinion on the matter doesn't jibe with yours but, we all have our reasons!

#1I believe a union is like any other business and once they're in, their #1 job is to stay in that business, with members concerns coming in 2nd. Still waiting on a reply from 700 about where the money from the $400 million dollar lawsuit wound up!

#2 My entire family, father, grandfather and 3 uncles worked at EAL and the funny thing is, just saw one of those uncles today who was there when EAL closed the doors and I asked him exactly why they went under and was it all managements fault.
His reply was that management was a small part of the problem but, the hammer that drove the nails home were UNIONS!

So, sorry for not believing that union representation is always in your best interest!

 

[Kev3188]

Uh, what are you talking about? Do you work for Delta? the company has its own little sub-section on DeltaNet completely devoted to the IAM. Why would they have this if the drives were dead?

Right?
 

I don't think you can at this point. As you see above I think unions like the IAM are crap. In-house or maybe AMFA, nothing else. (and in the case of the FAs I don't believe in joining a union with members who are trying to take your job, ie expressjet. I have the same issue with ALPA)

One of the things that appeals to me most is that any group that organizes at DL will be able to craft their own bylaws. Most people I know would like to adopt a lot of the structure AMFA has in place (officers still working their "day jobs," eg).
 

I have seen Delta give people chances, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, chances on issues that they shouldn't have.

I have seen good people walked for things that wouldn't normally even get a look. Seriously trivial stuff.

...And no, there isn't "more to the story."
 

Delta has been bringing work in-house. Delta has not gotten remotely close to the level of outsourcing at US. Delta has been bringing in work and opening stations.

Not in ACS, we haven't. Not a single new (or reopened) point post-merger. Not one. Some work, yes (some DCI handling in SLC and DTW, for example), and that's good, but it's only a start...
 
 

But yes, If i were on the ramp I would be trying to get a union in. I feel like Above wing, FAs and TechOps probably doesn't need a union. Ramp is just all over the place in everything. Policy is all over the place, outsourcing is all over the place, Ready reserve is all over the place.

Yes. This.

One example: They have amended the attendance policy. The change itself is a good one, IMO (yes, really). Here's the deal, though; 3 of us in 3 different stations were told 3 very different stories about what these changes will entail.

The policies themselves aren't bad as written. It's the consistently inconsistent nature of how they're enforced that is.
 

I posted a list one time of all the stations DL would have to make mainline ramp (and this was pre-717 build up) if they had the northwest scope, it was a ton of stations.
But the fact the stations like MIA, RDU, CLT, MCI, SAN and some others are DGS is crazy.

Agree 110%.

Point of order: MCI is staffed (thanks IAM!).
 
 

I also think a lot of people like to close their eyes at Delta. "its not that bad" 
just look at all the maintenance people around the web who defend Delta's outsourcing. "they outsourced airframe overhauls to make space for high margin work" oh really? well just where in the f%@k is this work hiding at? They don't need free hangar bay space for more CFM56 overhauls.

For awhile they were actually telling Leads and PLs to use those exact words when responding to someone that was complaining.
 
 

Dude you ever think about changing your name to FOX News? (No insult meant) I consider you the real "Fair and Balanced"

Another reason I like Kev too BTW.

Thanks.

 

[700UW]

There was no lawsuit it was an arbitration and the company filed bankruptcy a second time and the award was never paid.

And if it was paid it would have been distributed to the members effected.

By law the union wouldn't have kept money.

 

[700UW]

DL FAs after CQ.

 

[700UW]

 

[700UW]

My Uncle was with EA at JFK and MIA as a lead inspector, he doesnt blame the IAM.

All the unions at EA walked.  I walked the picket lines at JFK with him.

So answer this southwind, why was Frank Lorenzo removed from EA and CO, and banned permanently from ever working, owning or having anything do with an airline and yet the IAM, ALPA and the TWU who represented the employees at EA are allowed to still be in the industry?
 
Answer this too Southwind who was Lorenzo's lawyer at the time?
 
The truth behind what happened at EA:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSPAM3vauw
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mya5HUDOWX0

 

[southwind]

Pal, Eastern was going down, BEFORE Lorenzo and because of UNIONS!

 

[700UW]

Nope it was Borman and his failure to modernize EA's fleet.

Watch the documentary and learn the truth, the IAM spearheaded the cost savings that brought Eastern back from the brink.

 

[Kev3188]

DL is not EAL.

 

[southwind]

Nope it was Borman and his failure to modernize EA's fleet.
Watch the documentary and learn the truth, the IAM spearheaded the cost savings that brought Eastern back from the brink.

  

IAM spearheaded the demise of EAL by, believing people loading bags on aircraft should be making the same as the people maintaining them.
Once again I will take the word of people who were actually there vs. an IAM pimp

DL is not EAL.

No but, the IAM is still the IAM!

 

[700UW]

IAM spearheaded the demise of EAL by, believing people loading bags on aircraft should be making the same as the people maintaining them.
Once again I will take the word of people who were actually there vs. an IAM pimp
No but, the IAM is still the IAM!

Wrong again.