Delta loads new DAL flights
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I don't believe I ever predicted where DL's revenue position WOULD BE. I have simply said where it is as of the time the most recent data is available.
And quite frankly, the more NK grows at DFW, the more pain it puts on AA and the more AA has to match their fares - and that is a good thing.
NK also has a disproportionately higher percentage of complaints with the DOT because they keep passengers waiting for an operation that other airlines would have cancelled solely.
It also doesn't change that based on DOT data, NK's revenue is far, far lower than that of any network carrier. They have a long way to go before attracting the value of passengers that the legacy carriers attract.
And let's not forget that DL has a higher average fare at DFW than AA does, whether looking at domestic or on a consolidated basis. NK is AA's problem to deal with at DFW, not DL's. DL sent WN into retreat AT DL's largest hub. Let's see how well AA handles all of the low fare competition they will face over the next year in the metroplex.
And quite frankly, the more NK grows at DFW, the more pain it puts on AA and the more AA has to match their fares - and that is a good thing.
NK also has a disproportionately higher percentage of complaints with the DOT because they keep passengers waiting for an operation that other airlines would have cancelled solely.
It also doesn't change that based on DOT data, NK's revenue is far, far lower than that of any network carrier. They have a long way to go before attracting the value of passengers that the legacy carriers attract.
And let's not forget that DL has a higher average fare at DFW than AA does, whether looking at domestic or on a consolidated basis. NK is AA's problem to deal with at DFW, not DL's. DL sent WN into retreat AT DL's largest hub. Let's see how well AA handles all of the low fare competition they will face over the next year in the metroplex.
Spin spin spin, you are the one who stated dl carries more local markets, which is wrong, AA/US including AE carries about 85% of the DFW market, NK and DL carried 3.6% and NK carried over 4,000 more passengers than DL according to the latest numbers from DFW Airport.
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again, you have no clue what you are talking about.
AA/US carries 85% of DFW BOARDINGS - which includes a very high percentage of connecting traffic.
NO one cares how much traffic AA/US pumps thru DFW when looking at their share in the local market except DFW airport who collects fees based on aircraft movements and passenger boardings.
The measure of an airline's appeal in the region itself is their LOCAL market share - and you won't find it on DFW or any other airport's website.
The DOT does report local market share, however, and AA/US share is about 15 points less than what you cite.
AA/US carries 85% of DFW BOARDINGS - which includes a very high percentage of connecting traffic.
NO one cares how much traffic AA/US pumps thru DFW when looking at their share in the local market except DFW airport who collects fees based on aircraft movements and passenger boardings.
The measure of an airline's appeal in the region itself is their LOCAL market share - and you won't find it on DFW or any other airport's website.
The DOT does report local market share, however, and AA/US share is about 15 points less than what you cite.
WT, C'mon man. DL retreated out of DFW, we all know that. They went from hundreds of flights down to twenty something back in 03-04. The reasons for their retreat was due to the competition with AA and AA's size. Now over at little ole LF DL only fly's 50 seaters from Dal to Alt, how can you say DL is doing very well in competing with SWA when SWA does not even fly this route? Just because DL is at the same airport doesn't mean they are in competition. When SWA starts to fly Dal to Alt, then we will see how the competition goes. Fact is in the N tx market DL has failed to compete efficiently, and profitable with AA or SWA. Which in turn will be very difficult for VX to do if and when they get the gates...
BTW; Give AA the same amount of time as DL has had since exiting BK, and I will assure you AA will have larger profits than Dl. AA is still recovering from BK cost and merging cost, you just wait till they get out and reap all the synergies from the merger and the BK concessions and AA will be top of the industry again with a larger passenger count as well.
BTW; Give AA the same amount of time as DL has had since exiting BK, and I will assure you AA will have larger profits than Dl. AA is still recovering from BK cost and merging cost, you just wait till they get out and reap all the synergies from the merger and the BK concessions and AA will be top of the industry again with a larger passenger count as well.
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700UW said:
you don't get it.
swa,
TRAFFIC is passengers boarded and has absolutely no connection with whether they are local DFW originating passengers or not.
DL only flies 50 seaters to ATL because that is the largest plane they CAN fly.... you do realize the WA is still in effect?
Yes, I know that DL didn't gain enough of the local DFW market to justify the hub - but DL lost very little of the local market when it pulled down all of those flights. What you and others can't grasp - or refuse to - is that DL cut out CONNECTING capacity at DFW. They actually carried relatively little local DFW traffic on those flights that were cut.
You want to argue that DL can't compete - but then you also want to block DL from being able to do so. If you were even half sure that DL couldn't compete, you wouldn't be so desirous of keeping them from competing.
AT MDW, BWI, LAS, PHX etc... other large WN focus cities - DL competes very well against WN - far larger than other legacy carriers.
The only way WN will surpass DL in the DAL-ATL market is if DL can't serve it. You need only look at how well DL does to/from those markets mentioned above to see that DL, not WN, dominates every one of them.
BTW, I am more than happy to give AA a chance... but neither you or anyone else has been willing to admit that AA faces a level of new competition that is unmatched by any carrier at the time of a merger and emergence from BK. UNPRECEDENTED
robbedagain
Veteran
lets see here wt... AA faces the following: DL; UA; WN; VX; NK; ALLEGIANT B6
DL= AA; UA; WN; VX; NK; ALLEGIANT B6
UA=AA; DL VX NK ALLEGIANT B6
What more competition do you expect??? glad to see you know everything yet you cant accept when others are right and your not
DL= AA; UA; WN; VX; NK; ALLEGIANT B6
UA=AA; DL VX NK ALLEGIANT B6
What more competition do you expect??? glad to see you know everything yet you cant accept when others are right and your not
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you do realize 1. that the asset divestiture involves giving away 50 or so slot pairs at DCA - what has been called US' most profitable hubrobbedagain said:
2. a dozen or so slots at LGA which are being used to start service directly in key AA markets
3. the Wright Amendment is falling which allows WN to add service
4. DL now has the only other Joint venture competitive with AA/BA to LHR
5. Open Skies are coming to Latin America which allows for competitors to add new flights.
Again, tell me what other airline has faced as much NEW competition in its core markets as new AA will face over the next few years in its most key markets?
eolesen said:
which is why she sent you to play on the internet, right?
I have no control over the competition at LF, so just stop trying to make it sound like "I" refuse to allow DL compete at LF- I HAVE NO CONTROL OF THAT. Yes I want SWA to win said gates, naturally, but that does not mean I or SWA is afraid of the comp from DL, that is just laughable WT. You are the one that needs to come to the realization that the gates will go to a LCC period, as per the DOJ's own words and qualifications set forth by the DOJ. I am still predicting a possible Spirit and/or a JB bid coming soon, or maybe Allegiant.
The last item I will respond to is ALT, you need to go back to all the press releases made by SWA on why the ALT market was being restructured, NOT at all do to the DL, but in fact AT was running very non-efficient routes, and SWA is redirecting and revamping the entire ALT flight schedule to make them more profitable, again, it has NOTHING to do with retreating from DL's comp. Although ATL is a huge destination, it is NOT at the top of SWA's list, but it is a focus point. Too many other cities are more important to SWA at this time...
The last item I will respond to is ALT, you need to go back to all the press releases made by SWA on why the ALT market was being restructured, NOT at all do to the DL, but in fact AT was running very non-efficient routes, and SWA is redirecting and revamping the entire ALT flight schedule to make them more profitable, again, it has NOTHING to do with retreating from DL's comp. Although ATL is a huge destination, it is NOT at the top of SWA's list, but it is a focus point. Too many other cities are more important to SWA at this time...
But what you fail to grasp, WT is the fact that AA new all this comp was coming hence the over exaggerated BK concessions from all the employees. AA is more than prepared for the comp ahead of them, even better prepared than all the other mergers in the past which AA used as a guide as they are the last ones to merge and restructure.
OP
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well, **I** obviously have no control over what DL gets or not so now that we have cleared up that we are both just a couple of powerless peons...
afraid or not, WN hasn't grown SLC, has shrunk ATL since the merger, and the same can be said about other stations. WN's growth profile in DL markets is lower than for any other legacy carrier. If you doubt it, trot out the facts that show otherwise.
Not sure if you are intentionally doing it, but Atlanta is ATL.
You do realize that the same argument that you and others want to use to argue about DL's reduction in schedule at DFW is the same you are using for WN? So perhaps DL and WN both did the right thing and it isn't so bad for either NOT to carry the connecting traffic they once did and instead focus on the local market?
What's good for the goose can't be good for the gander too, can it?
afraid or not, WN hasn't grown SLC, has shrunk ATL since the merger, and the same can be said about other stations. WN's growth profile in DL markets is lower than for any other legacy carrier. If you doubt it, trot out the facts that show otherwise.
Not sure if you are intentionally doing it, but Atlanta is ATL.
You do realize that the same argument that you and others want to use to argue about DL's reduction in schedule at DFW is the same you are using for WN? So perhaps DL and WN both did the right thing and it isn't so bad for either NOT to carry the connecting traffic they once did and instead focus on the local market?
What's good for the goose can't be good for the gander too, can it?
robbedagain
Veteran
so youre back to the grammar thing now unbelievable might as well be a teacher while at it! the competition is no more no less different for the new aa as it is for ua and dl and wn etc
swamt I agree with you I think its only a matter of time before someone like b6 or nk or even allegiant tosses in a bid to serve dal
swamt I agree with you I think its only a matter of time before someone like b6 or nk or even allegiant tosses in a bid to serve dal
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- #60
so, city codes don't matter either?
good thing the airlines have automated generating the bag tags and a million other things.
and, yes, AA most certainly is facing far more competition on its key network than any other airline has at any one time.
If you are certain they aren't, please let me know what other airline you would like to cite.
I'd love at this point for a WHOLE BUNCH more airlines to ask to get into DAL... just because it will prove that it is an airport that has alot of interest and the whole notion that WN should control 80% of the gates is beyond absurd. Adding even more to that would be downright, well, nevermind.
good thing the airlines have automated generating the bag tags and a million other things.
and, yes, AA most certainly is facing far more competition on its key network than any other airline has at any one time.
If you are certain they aren't, please let me know what other airline you would like to cite.
I'd love at this point for a WHOLE BUNCH more airlines to ask to get into DAL... just because it will prove that it is an airport that has alot of interest and the whole notion that WN should control 80% of the gates is beyond absurd. Adding even more to that would be downright, well, nevermind.
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