If this is all about DL employee's "overwhelming desire" to unionize...

[Ch. 12]

Danny-

Fascinating response to my post. I am starting to see the light. Let me just talk this out to make sure i have it correct. so AFA - let's call them 'halliburton' - is around to aid mgmt -let's call them 'the executive' - in their decisions. in doing so, halliburton is looking out for the best interests of the entire company, no? or perhaps just their own? spinning economic situations and either looking for more money or making it hard to make changes to the business (either costs or productivity) during critical periods is very much like halliburton.

And your entire post regurgitated what i said unions have become. unions were originally about TRUE protection of workers. safety. human rights. now you think they are about co-management. if you want to run things, why not get into mgmt? i'm no mechanic. do i feel that b/c book a ticket i should tell them how to turn a wrench? that would be pretty idiotic. and beyond idiotic is using scare tactics. Has Lorenzo done horrible things? sure. Has NWA mgmt done shifty things? sure. I never dispute that poor ethics happen. But to use one groups ethics and say that it will definitely happen at another group is wreckless and irresponsible. it is the same as claiming that Iraq was behind 9/11 to justify your own means...halliburton.

I applaud unions making the workplace safer but don't stand on an 'ethical' platform when your ethics are just as bad as the 'corruption' that you are fighting.

 

[Danny Campbell]

Ch 12.

You began with...Let me just talk this out to make sure i have it correct. so AFA - let's call them 'halliburton'..

NOPE - STOP RIGHT THERE. That is where you are immediately losing the picture. Do you understand what a NPO or NGO is? How about the local PTA? Labor Unions are non-profit organizations. They aren't in the business of making profits. While I will grant you that there are a lot of piss-poor leaders at many unions in the country, there are also a GREAT MANY who are honest, sincere and give of themselves unselfishly for the advancement of workers rights - and for the strength of the middle class. You apparently have a blind spot here, and can't begin the discussion from that vantage point - so the rest seems useless.

...unions were originally about TRUE protection of workers. safety. human rights. now you think they are about co-management.

That is a trend happening in many industries. Unions are demanding seats on their companies Board of Directors and many management teams work directly with union committee on day-to-day operations. And, they are finding that these partnership tend to be FAR MORE successful too. When front-line workers are given a seat at the table or participate in decision-making, it is always better for the company, because most workers know far more about what works and what doesn't work than some advisor or high-paid consultant sitting a desk.

...I applaud unions making the workplace safer but don't stand on an 'ethical' platform when your ethics are just as bad as the 'corruption' that you are fighting.

Now you've done it. Perhaps you should do a little research on who you are talking to - before blurting out such nonsense. I spent the better part of 2 decades fighting against corruption in the Teamsters union, and was removed from office for NOT SELLING OUT THE MEMBERSHIP. It costs me many thousands of dollars out of my own pocket and I nearly lost my home fighting AGAINST corrruption - both corporate and within some bad union leaders. So, unless you have a similar story - maybe you should drop the 'ethics' assertion - don't you think?

You see - I don't just gripe about things I don't like, I work on changing them.

 

[Yankeestu]

Ch 12.

You began with...Let me just talk this out to make sure i have it correct. so AFA - let's call them 'halliburton'..

NOPE - STOP RIGHT THERE. That is where you are immediately losing the picture. Do you understand what a NPO or NGO is? How about the local PTA? Labor Unions are non-profit organizations. They aren't in the business of making profits. While I will grant you that there are a lot of piss-poor leaders at many unions in the country, there are also a GREAT MANY who are honest, sincere and give of themselves unselfishly for the advancement of workers rights - and for the strength of the middle class. You apparently have a blind spot here, and can't begin the discussion from that vantage point - so the rest seems useless.

...unions were originally about TRUE protection of workers. safety. human rights. now you think they are about co-management.

That is a trend happening in many industries. Unions are demanding seats on their companies Board of Directors and many management teams work directly with union committee on day-to-day operations. And, they are finding that these partnership tend to be FAR MORE successful too. When front-line workers are given a seat at the table or participate in decision-making, it is always better for the company, because most workers know far more about what works and what doesn't work than some advisor or high-paid consultant sitting a desk.

...I applaud unions making the workplace safer but don't stand on an 'ethical' platform when your ethics are just as bad as the 'corruption' that you are fighting.

Now you've done it. Perhaps you should do a little research on who you are talking to - before blurting out such nonsense. I spent the better part of 2 decades fighting against corruption in the Teamsters union, and was removed from office for NOT SELLING OUT THE MEMBERSHIP. It costs me many thousands of dollars out of my own pocket and I nearly lost my home fighting AGAINST corrruption - both corporate and within some bad union leaders. So, unless you have a similar story - maybe you should drop the 'ethics' assertion - don't you think?

You see - I don't just gripe about things I don't like, I work on changing them.

"In our time all it takes for evil to flourish is for a few good men to be a little wrong and have a great deal of power, and for the vast majority of their fellow citizens to remain indifferent."

William Sloan Coffin Jr.

 

[dapoes]

Its never been about DAL "overwhelming desire" to unionize, more like AFA trying anything and everything (including deception) to get in.

 

[Yankeestu]

Its never been about DAL "overwhelming desire" to unionize, more like AFA trying anything and everything (including deception) to get in.

DELTA: 12 yrs=$42.00 NO UNION
NWA: 15 yrs=$39.80 WITH UNION

and yet in the long run they make more than us...why? Duty rigs, trip credit, out of pocket insurance costs, sick time (up to 1200 in sick bank)........just to name a few. You should gather your facts dear Dapoes and make an informed decision.

NW FA looked over my bid packet and a 16 hour 2 day would have been worth 19 hours with NW scheduling rules.

16x41.07(the real DAL wage for a topped out at 13 year FA, who is deceptive?)=$657.12
19x39.80=$756.20

Hmmmmm......which would I prefer? NO BRAINER

 

[Danny Campbell]

YankeeStu:

Dapoes is not even a FA. H/she is a management plant (as was discovered on flightattendants.org) who has appeared on all these discussions boards since the GOTV campaign began. Sadly, it's all part of the "we respect your right to decide for yourself if a union is best..."

 

[dapoes]

YankeeStu:

Dapoes is not even a FA. H/she is a management plant (as was discovered on flightattendants.org) who has appeared on all these discussions boards since the GOTV campaign began. Sadly, it's all part of the "we respect your right to decide for yourself if a union is best..."

Typical response from AFA rep when backed into a corner and deceptive practices exposed! When confronted about the NMB's ruling, his reply was simply that they (NMB) being guilty of "Voter Supression". Shameful response coming from a AFA representitve.

 

[bagboy]

Typical response from AFA rep when backed into a corner and deceptive practices exposed! When confronted about the NMB's ruling, his reply was simply that they (NMB) being guilty of "Voter Suppression". Shameful response coming from a AFA representative.

The only deception here comes from Rich and Dougie. They love to lie and it shows. The unions are doing what they can to truthfully inform the masses. The company uses it's money, (the money that used to be ours), and hundreds of attorneys to exploit the NMB and its rules. They bully and intimidate their employees every day, in the break rooms, at the time clocks, in the employee mail boxes. Why do you fear the unions so much? Are you afraid that with the unions we can get our fair share of the pie?

 

[dapoes]

The only deception here comes from Rich and Dougie. They love to lie and it shows. The unions are doing what they can to truthfully inform the masses. The company uses it's money, (the money that used to be ours), and hundreds of attorneys to exploit the NMB and its rules. They bully and intimidate their employees every day, in the break rooms, at the time clocks, in the employee mail boxes. Why do you fear the unions so much? Are you afraid that with the unions we can get our fair share of the pie?

The only one harassing me every day "in the break rooms, at the time clocks, in the employee mail boxes" plus the phone calls the emails is the union. Very annoying. Have nothing really against the AFA, just find it hard to swallow they are going to make anything better at Delta. The motive right now is to preserve the NWA people if the merger goes thru. They fear that if there is a second election, then the AFA is is done for at DAL. They want to capture the largest FA employment base. Its a HUGE revenue opportunity for them. Not so much for the FA's

 

[Kev3188]

Typical response from AFA rep when backed into a corner and deceptive practices exposed! When confronted about the NMB's ruling, his reply was simply that they (NMB) being guilty of "Voter Supression"....

...And when confronted about being a management "plant," you did nothing to deny it.

Very curious indeed.

 

[bagboy]

The only one harassing me every day "in the break rooms, at the time clocks, in the employee mail boxes" plus the phone calls the emails is the union.

Who said anything about harassing? You and your fellow kool-aid kids may find this method "annoying" but how else do we get the message out. DL management will stop at nothing to stop the unionization of Delta. Why is that? The fact is it is probably too late. NWA is coming with enough union numbers to over turn anything that the DL management do to stop the unions. The old Delta is dead forever. The Red Tail culture will soon consume us all. Resistance is futile.

 

[DAL Mech]

Who said anything about harassing? You and your fellow kool-aid kids may find this method "annoying" but how else do we get the message out. DL management will stop at nothing to stop the unionization of Delta. Why is that? The fact is it is probably too late. NWA is coming with enough union numbers to over turn anything that the DL management do to stop the unions. The old Delta is dead forever. The Red Tail culture will soon consume us all. Resistance is futile.

The mechanics union doesn't stand a chance.

 

[BABABOOY]

The old Delta is dead forever. The Red Tail culture will soon consume us all. Resistance is futile.

God help us all. Culture? More like a Cancer. However Cancer can be eradicated ;-)

 

[Cajun Flyer]

but how else do we get the message out.

I think the best way for AFA to get their message out is simply to have it's website updated with factual information and you can participate in discussion boards such as this one to further disseminate information but to somehow obtain personal cell phone numbers and personal e-mail accounts and then bombard you is going too far! After blocking one e-mail sender, another will show up. In total, I've received phone calls from 4 different people and e-mails from 7 to my personal cell phone and personal e-mail without EVER having provided it to anyone associated with AFA. Removing yourself from their e-mail list does absolutely no good because you then get an e-mail from someone else. It's more than annoying and it's way more interference than I've gotten from Delta. I've gotten ZERO phone calls from Delta in regard to the vote and ZERO e-mails to my personal e-mail. AFA needs to stand on its own mertis and allow those who are interested in the union to find the information out for themselves. In this day and age anyone who is interested in AFA's stances can easily find it without being harassed by its membership.

 

[1Conehead]

They bully and intimidate their employees every day, in the break rooms, at the time clocks, in the employee mail boxes. Why do you fear the unions so much? Are you afraid that with the unions we can get our fair share of the pie?

I sure hope we never go back to time clocks!