Jetblue To Reconsider E190 Order
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B6BD,
Yes, I think those folks at UAL picking up max time and jumping on every senior manning trip is a royal scumbag. I feel the same way about the DAL guys who pick up "green slips". We even had some mental giants at UAL picking up "open flying" during the month before they got furloughed. Heck, when I got my furlough notice, I went on mil leave.
Here is my issue with "time and a half" over 70. First, don't get so caught up in the number 70. I'd feel the same way if the number were 50 or 90. The "incentive' is to get every pilot to MAX out his monthly flying EVERY MONTH. I've even seen military reservist quit the reserves because if they contribute any time to the reserves, they are giving up "time and a half" to do it. I
As far as me being lazy, HE11 YES!! For me it has always been about ime with my family. I don't want to be 50 and be saying to myself, "this porsche is so much cooler than the time I could have had with may family instead". Max flying works well if you ghave one year upgrades or if you're already at the top of the pile, but for the young guys, eagerly waiting for an upgrade so that you can get your family off the Mac and Cheese/ Pork and Beans diet, max flying by the selfish few at the top just isn't very cool. Additionally, flying 85 hours in a month doing transcons is fairly easy, but as the 190 flying increases, with it's long days and lower flying hours, the toll that 85 hours takes will be much greater on those guys, and unfortunately, those guys are the ones who will need to do it the most to make ends meet.
Happy new year to all you guys (even you Farley). May 2006 be a SAFE and prosperous year for ALL of us associated with this industry.
B6BD,
Yes, I think those folks at UAL picking up max time and jumping on every senior manning trip is a royal scumbag. I feel the same way about the DAL guys who pick up "green slips". We even had some mental giants at UAL picking up "open flying" during the month before they got furloughed. Heck, when I got my furlough notice, I went on mil leave.
Here is my issue with "time and a half" over 70. First, don't get so caught up in the number 70. I'd feel the same way if the number were 50 or 90. The "incentive' is to get every pilot to MAX out his monthly flying EVERY MONTH. I've even seen military reservist quit the reserves because if they contribute any time to the reserves, they are giving up "time and a half" to do it. I
As far as me being lazy, HE11 YES!! For me it has always been about ime with my family. I don't want to be 50 and be saying to myself, "this porsche is so much cooler than the time I could have had with may family instead". Max flying works well if you ghave one year upgrades or if you're already at the top of the pile, but for the young guys, eagerly waiting for an upgrade so that you can get your family off the Mac and Cheese/ Pork and Beans diet, max flying by the selfish few at the top just isn't very cool. Additionally, flying 85 hours in a month doing transcons is fairly easy, but as the 190 flying increases, with it's long days and lower flying hours, the toll that 85 hours takes will be much greater on those guys, and unfortunately, those guys are the ones who will need to do it the most to make ends meet.
Happy new year to all you guys (even you Farley). May 2006 be a SAFE and prosperous year for ALL of us associated with this industry.
Happy New year to you as well. The maxing out each month doesn't happen as much as you might think. There are some who are doing the reserve gig who do well on 70 hours. Anyway, I'm off to get a free PBJ, no pork and beans tonight. See you all next year...
I haven't read every post on this thread, but it appears to me it's more of an argument on payrates than Jetblue reconsidering the E190 order.
My question is, how many does Jetblue have on the property and how many are actually flying? I have heard that a significant number remains on the ground each day with mx issues.
My question is, how many does Jetblue have on the property and how many are actually flying? I have heard that a significant number remains on the ground each day with mx issues.
I think we have 8 on property and like all new aircraft types there are problems but it is improving
Very interesting. I have only seen 4 aircraft flying at any given time on my flight explorer.
Thanks.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
Now that B6 is firmly in the red, do you still think those raises on the 190 will be forthcoming? I don't think so. And with no profit sharing check, I guess your pay is even lower now. How about those quick upgrades? Will they continue as B6 slows it's expansion?
Don't think for a second that your management didn't consider this stuff when they chose the 190 over the A318.
Pay rates do count.
Jetz:
Still trying to make your point, huh?
For the record, my pay is exactly the same. There is no "paycut" being enforced/shoved down our throats. Profit sharing money is placed in an account for you by the company, and to my knowledge is not spendable until you retire or separate from the company. It is placed there so you have some savings. Now that JB has shown a loss, there will not be a deposit to your profit sharing account this year. It is not a paycut. Of course, you will spin it any way you can to make it look like one.
As far as raises, when fuel is normal ($50), we will see.
Boomer
Still trying to make your point, huh?
For the record, my pay is exactly the same. There is no "paycut" being enforced/shoved down our throats. Profit sharing money is placed in an account for you by the company, and to my knowledge is not spendable until you retire or separate from the company. It is placed there so you have some savings. Now that JB has shown a loss, there will not be a deposit to your profit sharing account this year. It is not a paycut. Of course, you will spin it any way you can to make it look like one.
As far as raises, when fuel is normal ($50), we will see.
Boomer
Many investors have already nominated Neeleman for this award, given the full-year 2005 net loss and the projected 2006 full year net loss. That fourth quarter loss was even bigger than I predicted.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
Not trying. Already did. A long time ago. Just reinforcing the facts.
As for the pay cut you just took... spin it all you want. Doesn't matter if you have access to it now or at retirement. Ask any person what they would call it if someone stopped contibuting to their 401K account. What if Joe Public no longer got his %4 match to his 401K? You think he'd consider it a pay cut? I'd say yes.
When we negotiate our contract, and the compay assigns a cost, every penny including our "B" and "C" plan is included in compensation. It is most certainly considered pay. The only difference is that with profit sharing, when profits stop, so does the additional pay.
Furthermore, most people have an annual savings goal for their retirement. Every penny the company does not contribute is another penny the employee has to contribute from their pocket. End result is a pay cut, no matter how you slice it.
Spin away my friend...
And if you get a pay raise when oil hits $50, that's great. So will everyone else. I hope you do, but I wouldn't hold your breath. No contract means no promises. And in fact at $50 oil prices, UAL will be raking in over $1 Billion in profits. But I'm sure you've heard all the hype about our plan being "flawed" by now, right? No need to go over that again.
A little old but...
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/200...e-embraer_x.htm
JetBlue CEO cites hiccups in Embraer plane debut
NEW YORK (Reuters) — JetBlue Airways's chief executive Thursday said the discount carrier had experienced problems with its new Embraer 100-seat jets which have led it to slow their introduction into service.
David Neeleman told analysts at a conference that the airline had set a too ambitious schedule for the debut of the Brazilian-made jet, whose problems have coincided with ongoing struggles at JetBlue with late flights.
"We have had some operational issues with the airplane," he said. The plane's introduction "certainly hasn't been up to what we thought we could do."
JetBlue shares were down 50 cents, or 3.7%, at $12.94 — more than a one-month intraday low — in afternoon trading on Nasdaq. The airline reports fourth-quarter earnings on Feb. 1.
Some analysts have warned that the addition of the smaller jet to JetBlue's existing fleet of Airbus A320s risked adding an unneeded layer of complexity to its operations.
Neeleman, JetBlue's founder, has argued that the jets will end up giving the airline greater flexibility to serve midsized markets that wouldn't fill its larger aircraft.
But he said the plane, which JetBlue began flying between Boston and New York in November, had reliability rates "a few percentage points less" than its Airbus planes in terms of glitches which delayed flights.
In addition, Embraer has been delivering the planes about two weeks behind schedule, meeting the terms of its contract, but lagging what Neeleman said was an "aggressive" schedule the airline set for putting them into service.
"We're playing a little bit of catch-up right now," he said, adding that employees' lack of familiarity with the jet and its need to get certified for low-visibility flying had also slowed progress.
Missteps cited
JetBlue reported a 63.6% on-time arrival performance for December, according to Aviation Daily. Neeleman blamed the problems partly on construction near its JFK International Airport hub.
Neeleman also said JetBlue was moving to boost its revenue performance, which he said had suffered thanks to competition from bankrupt Delta Air Lines's low-cost Song unit and what he called JetBlue's own missteps.
"In the short term we have a few clouds to get through, some of them through our own doing," he said.
JetBlue will move its yield management and corporate finance departments, which had been based in Salt Lake City, Utah, and Darien, Conn., respectively, into its operational headquarters in Queens, N.Y, he said.
Song is due to be folded into Delta, though analysts are still unsure whether that will mean a reduction of its flights between New York and Florida, where it competes with JetBlue.
"We believe they have no choice but to cut capacity, which will certainly help us," Neeleman said.
Neeleman's cautious tone contrasted with a sunny outlook from low-cost carrier Southwest Airlines Co.
"I am confident that we'll be able to stand up here and be smiling as much as Southwest because we have a tremendous product and tremendous people," Neeleman said.
In an earlier presentation, Southwest CEO Gary Kelly reiterated the airline's target for 15% earnings growth and said he was hopeful the airline could maintain strong revenue performance for the first half.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/200...e-embraer_x.htm
JetBlue CEO cites hiccups in Embraer plane debut
NEW YORK (Reuters) — JetBlue Airways's chief executive Thursday said the discount carrier had experienced problems with its new Embraer 100-seat jets which have led it to slow their introduction into service.
David Neeleman told analysts at a conference that the airline had set a too ambitious schedule for the debut of the Brazilian-made jet, whose problems have coincided with ongoing struggles at JetBlue with late flights.
"We have had some operational issues with the airplane," he said. The plane's introduction "certainly hasn't been up to what we thought we could do."
JetBlue shares were down 50 cents, or 3.7%, at $12.94 — more than a one-month intraday low — in afternoon trading on Nasdaq. The airline reports fourth-quarter earnings on Feb. 1.
Some analysts have warned that the addition of the smaller jet to JetBlue's existing fleet of Airbus A320s risked adding an unneeded layer of complexity to its operations.
Neeleman, JetBlue's founder, has argued that the jets will end up giving the airline greater flexibility to serve midsized markets that wouldn't fill its larger aircraft.
But he said the plane, which JetBlue began flying between Boston and New York in November, had reliability rates "a few percentage points less" than its Airbus planes in terms of glitches which delayed flights.
In addition, Embraer has been delivering the planes about two weeks behind schedule, meeting the terms of its contract, but lagging what Neeleman said was an "aggressive" schedule the airline set for putting them into service.
"We're playing a little bit of catch-up right now," he said, adding that employees' lack of familiarity with the jet and its need to get certified for low-visibility flying had also slowed progress.
Missteps cited
JetBlue reported a 63.6% on-time arrival performance for December, according to Aviation Daily. Neeleman blamed the problems partly on construction near its JFK International Airport hub.
Neeleman also said JetBlue was moving to boost its revenue performance, which he said had suffered thanks to competition from bankrupt Delta Air Lines's low-cost Song unit and what he called JetBlue's own missteps.
"In the short term we have a few clouds to get through, some of them through our own doing," he said.
JetBlue will move its yield management and corporate finance departments, which had been based in Salt Lake City, Utah, and Darien, Conn., respectively, into its operational headquarters in Queens, N.Y, he said.
Song is due to be folded into Delta, though analysts are still unsure whether that will mean a reduction of its flights between New York and Florida, where it competes with JetBlue.
"We believe they have no choice but to cut capacity, which will certainly help us," Neeleman said.
Neeleman's cautious tone contrasted with a sunny outlook from low-cost carrier Southwest Airlines Co.
"I am confident that we'll be able to stand up here and be smiling as much as Southwest because we have a tremendous product and tremendous people," Neeleman said.
In an earlier presentation, Southwest CEO Gary Kelly reiterated the airline's target for 15% earnings growth and said he was hopeful the airline could maintain strong revenue performance for the first half.
Neeleman says that the 100 seaters won't introduce too much complexity and will give B6 "flexibility" to serve smaller markets.
So would 37 seat Embraer regional jets, stupid. Why not go out and order a 100 of those, too? After all, there's lots and lots of cities out there that can't support 100 seaters.
And after that, maybe you can find someone willing to build you 100 or so 19 seat turboprops; that would enable you to serve the top 500 or so commercial airports in the USA.
Deviate from the LCC script, dumbass, and you risk losing money. Lots of money. We told you so, Dave. So did just about every other aviation expert in the USA.
Fools and their money are easily parted, especially in the airline biz. Thank you, Dave, for providing an interesting B-School case study that aspiring MBAs can study for years to come. It will be entitled "How to turn a profitable LCC into a money-losing legacy."
So would 37 seat Embraer regional jets, stupid. Why not go out and order a 100 of those, too? After all, there's lots and lots of cities out there that can't support 100 seaters.
And after that, maybe you can find someone willing to build you 100 or so 19 seat turboprops; that would enable you to serve the top 500 or so commercial airports in the USA.
Deviate from the LCC script, dumbass, and you risk losing money. Lots of money. We told you so, Dave. So did just about every other aviation expert in the USA.
Fools and their money are easily parted, especially in the airline biz. Thank you, Dave, for providing an interesting B-School case study that aspiring MBAs can study for years to come. It will be entitled "How to turn a profitable LCC into a money-losing legacy."
" "? Nice. Jury's still out, sport. In 10 yrs you can say "told you so". Maybe. More likely, you'll be nowhere to be found.
"? Nice. Jury's still out, sport. In 10 yrs you can say "told you so". Maybe. More likely, you'll be nowhere to be found."
Of course, time will tell in all of this, but for the long haul I see a much brighter future for the stronger legacy carriers like American when compared to Jetblue.
