One great airline DVD

[1Conehead]

Now Kev, there there. You're not being a good Obamian citizen. Just for that you're gonna have to lead us in singing our next peace and brotherhood hymm. And don't forget to put some more of your jobs and benefits in the collection basket

Sung to the tune of the (old) National Anthem.

Obama save me
from my mortgage company
and the gas price I pay
for my ride everyday

And the rich pay their share
so I can sit in my chair
and wait on my check
while I drink on my deck.

(please help me finish).

 

[North by Northwest]

Sung to the tune of the (old) National Anthem.

Obama save me
from my mortgage company
and the gas price I pay
for my ride everyday

And the rich pay their share
so I can sit in my chair
and wait on my check
while I drink on my deck.

(please help me finish).

What...that take ya bout a week to put together? Proud of you!


(here's a little help)

I sing this song from the bottom of the scale,

I'm use to living in compensation hell,

While I read of my Master's yacht sale,

I like it here cozy and sweet,

doormat heaven is all I seek.

 

[1Conehead]

What...that take ya bout a week to put together? Proud of you!


(here's a little help)

I sing this song from the bottom of the scale,

I'm use to living in compensation hell,

While I read of my Master's yacht sale,

I like it here cozy and sweet,

doormat heaven is all I seek.

We're not bottom yet (NW still holds that title).
I haven't been able to figure out where to put your part of the song.(for the most part I like it though and will figure out how to fit it in)

 

[Kev3188]

I saw that, it was pretty funny seeing them get spanked in public for not jet pooling.

Did you see where one of the CEO's said he'd work for a $1.00 salary and the congressman asked the other two guys if they were willing to do the same but both said they were fine with what they were making (millions).

You go in front of congress begging for money, waste all the jet fuel to get there, and won't lower your salary. These CEO's are all alike give me, give me, give me.....but don't expect us to give anything in return. :down: They're out of control.

I hope (wish I remembered which CEO said he'd work for $1.00) this guy gets a bail out and the others pound sand!

That was Robert Nardelli of Chrysler....

 

[dapoes]

the problem with performance based pay rather than seniority is simply expectations and performance in those types of jobs are outlined exactly the same at year one as well as year 30 plus..there may be inadequate criteria to measure performance which may be not be easily understood/interpreted by the individual doing the evaluation and setting the "pay"... for example, in a rank and file profession, an employee may meet all criteria, goals, be on time, and perform their job as outlined, however a manager may simply view that performance was not to their personal standard and attempt to adjust salary what "they" feel is earned.. even though the employee may feel completely differently and view the evaluation as unfair(it is an open door to labor problems). it also does not really reinforce motivational attempts when an employee who is "on the line" is not involved in the decision making, two way communications and opportunity to contribute ideas while at the same time having to solely focus on how they are being perceived regarding their "performance"...some jobs it just does not work(thousands on the line) and some jobs it does(small numbers in an office)... to have that as a sole focus of compensation.

Not necessarily, with the early adoption of various ISO, TQC, JIT etc. standards, performance and quality are measured on a individual and team basis. Foreign manufactures have been doing this for decades. American car companies have adopted very late in the game. And have also meet with resistance from short sighted management and UAW that hindered innovation and progress.

Case in point the Birmingham Honda plant who hasnt had any layoffs for 30 years. Despite the repeated UAW intimidation cases as:

Excerpt:

In another case the UAW was forced to settle a lawsuit filed against it for its role in a violence campaign against workers at a Virginia plant who refused to walk off the job during a union-ordered strike. A lawsuit in that case charged several union militants with civil conspiracy and other counts for making death threats, shooting out windows, sending obscene mail, acts of stalking, theft of property, and harassing workers on the job to coerce them into quitting their jobs.

And in a particularly vivid image of UAW intimidation, 55-year old Sucheng Huang was greeted early one morning with a bloody severed cows head on the hood of her car. So it turns out that UAW officials have no problem using intimidation and threats against employees. They just don’t like those employees being given any information that “threatensâ€￾ the union’s ability to force workers into union ranks.

And another article here: UAW And Why Honda And Toyota Workers Are Not Interested

Excerpt:

The Japanese auto makers in the U.S. seem to be winning their battle with the UAW because the people they employ seem convinced that the benefits are good and that the union couldn't do any better. Moreover, these auto makers tend to build plants in the U.S. in areas that have a low average wage for laborers.

Worse, conditions are better in transplants in some areas. An example of a happy plant of workers is in the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. The workers are now being paid more and getting better bonuses than UAW workers average at domestic plants.

Yet the UAW continues to try. It attempted to organize the workers at the Subaru plant in Lafayette at least three times. The result? Nada, nothing. The plant will be producing Camrys (pictured) in a joint venture with Toyota in April.

 

[tech2101]

.

 

[tech2101]

That was Robert Nardelli of Chrysler....

That was Robert Nardelli of Chrysler....Who tanked Home Depot and left with a mint...He can afford his $1

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Not necessarily, with the early adoption of various ISO, TQC, JIT etc. standards, performance and quality are measured on a individual and team basis. Foreign manufactures have been doing this for decades. American car companies have adopted very late in the game. And have also meet with resistance from short sighted management and UAW that hindered innovation and progress.

Case in point the Birmingham Honda plant who hasnt had any layoffs for 30 years. Despite the repeated UAW intimidation cases as:

Excerpt:


And another article here: UAW And Why Honda And Toyota Workers Are Not Interested

Excerpt:

Since you're so performance driven, would you care to explain why the DL pay-for-performance merit employees didn't receive a step increase from July 1, 2001 to June 30, 2007?

 

[Dignity]

Not necessarily, with the early adoption of various ISO, TQC, JIT etc. standards, performance and quality are measured on a individual and team basis. Foreign manufactures have been doing this for decades. American car companies have adopted very late in the game. And have also meet with resistance from short sighted management and UAW that hindered innovation and progress.

while I clearly see what you are implying, one problem is it really does seem so intuitively sensible, shouldnt people be rewarded for relative contribution, thus motivating them to do better?
Dapoes, satisfaction/psychological growth are a result of motivation factors, these include recognition, responsibility, achievement, promotion and supportive growth(which are not necessarily reflected in a "performance based raise" rather than an effective and supportive management team...which unfortunately is not always present adequately in some industries and I have personally witnessed some alarming and insensitive management styles)..while some manufactures may have been "doing this for decades" still does not dismiss the need for seniority pay steps. Seniority pay steps are necessary as a foundation while including performance based incentives at this time simpy because "short sighted" views have hindered a wide scale performance based pay that could be applied to those "on the line" at this time..

maybe after a few decades of supportive management application and mutual respect .. then these sensible performance pay steps may become more of the norm, until then..its something that needs working on.

 

[dapoes]

while I clearly see what you are implying, one problem is it really does seem so intuitively sensible, shouldnt people be rewarded for relative contribution, thus motivating them to do better?
Dapoes, satisfaction/psychological growth are a result of motivation factors, these include recognition, responsibility, achievement, promotion and supportive growth(which are not necessarily reflected in a "performance based raise" rather than an effective and supportive managment team...which unfortunately is not always present adequately in some industries)..while some manufactures may have been "doing this for decades" still does not dismiss the need for seniority pay steps. Seniority pay steps are necessary as a foundation while including performance based incentives at this time(simpy because "short sighted" views have hindered a wide scale performance based pay that could be applied to those "on the line" at this time..

maybe after a few decades of supportive management application and mutual respect .. then these sensible performance pay steps may become more of the norm, until then..its something that needs working on.

thank you for another view point.

Well the seniority based pay opens itself up to abuse.

Case in point:

Long time family friend worked at McDonnell Douglass (So Cal) as Electrician. It was a running joke the disrespect hey showed to management as they had a very aggressive union leader. Flipping off people, hiding out for the day, sleeping, going to the beach for the day on the clock. So when that plant got overtaken by Boeing (early 90's) him and others were out on their ears. Struggled, never really perfected his craft as there was never motivation to do a good job. Finally landed a fairly decent job as electrician at USC (non union) and had to work his arse off.

Another is the LA harbor. Good friend works at the credit union and are always having to deal with people and their mis-management of finances. During the housing boom a lot of them had wanted to buy houses, made over 140k annually but had horrible credit and no money. Sure a lot "stuff" cars, jewelry etc. It was well known that you could easily skip out for the day, (punch in, leave for the day, come back and punch out) so much so that some of the surrounding bars was mixed with workers who really haven't worked for years. They had some very good union attack dogs that always grieved out everything and won. So much so that even management threw their hands up years ago and lets them roll all over them.

So who suffers? Not them apparently (yet) but yet the the loss of productivity in turn increases costs that eventually is put upon the consumer in higher goods and services.

 

[Dignity]

Well the seniority based pay opens itself up to abuse.

there needs to be a "foundation" for pay steps.

Dapoes, seniority pay steps will not be dismantled in the fore-see-able future(in most industries).

 

[Dignity]

the loss of productivity in turn increases costs

that may be avoided if effective and supportive management teams are in place

 

[dapoes]

there needs to be a "foundation" for pay steps.

Dapoes, seniority pay steps will not be dismantled in the fore-see-able future(in most industries).

Im not saying to seniority should be completely removed. Time served should always be an important consideration, just a balance between that and performance.

 

[Dignity]

Im not saying to seniority should be completely removed. Time served should always be an important consideration, just a balance between that and performance.

I understand, however it will be near impossible to balance seniority pay steps and performance pay simultaneously.. because that may require seniority pay steps to be reduced in order to compensate for an increase of performance pay with both incorporated/balanced as the primary compensation.

Seniority pay steps should be separate from performance incentive pay/awards.

 

[North by Northwest]

I understand, however it will be near impossible to balance seniority pay steps and performance pay simultaneously.. because that may require seniority pay steps to be reduced in order to compensate for an increase of performance pay with both incorporated/balanced as the primary compensation.

Seniority pay steps should be separate from performance incentive pay/awards.

Dignity-

Yours is a formula based on past and present commonsense and fairness. Something RA and the Steenland FAMILY doesn't believe in...AND, those that support their form of oligarchy.

Some people will never change, they will ALWAYS believe their place is at that bottom.