Results are out: F/A seniority Intergration team
- Thread starter BABABOOY
- Start date
12 FEBRUARY 2009 NWA AFA E-News
SENIORITY LIST MEANINGLESS WITHOUT A CONTRACT
We recently received the recommendation put out by the Delta seniority integration committee. While the information seems stirring, any talks of merging our respective lists are premature. Delta executives are trying to call the game in the first quarter and that’s just not right. Instead, we need to focus on the “end game†of having a union vote and a contract.
Do not be lulled into a false sense of security as Delta executives continue to try to confuse and divide us and take away our right to an industry leading agreement for all flight attendants at the world’s largest carrier. Remember that the recommendation published this week by the Delta management sponsored committee and the Delta seniority list can be changed at any time without a contract.
A seniority list, in and of itself, is meaningless absent the protections of our agreement. The word “seniority†is written in our contract more than 350 times and involves many crucial provisions and sections of our collective bargaining agreement. While seniority is certainly the bedrock of our contract, it is just one of the many important issues that concern us – from our pay and benefits, to the scope of our work, and protections against outsourcing our jobs.
Though the Delta committee seems to agree with our longstanding AFA policy of “date-of-hireâ€, any talks of agreeing on a merged seniority list are simply not timely. Several steps need to occur prior to
merging our seniority lists including:
- A vote for AFA representation in which all flight attendants will have the opportunity to vote
- Surveying all flight attendants to determine our preferred priorities for negotiations
- Negotiate an industry leading contract at the world’s largest carrier
- All flight attendants will then have the opportunity vote on a negotiated agreement with Delta Air Lines.
Our timeline should flow like the pilots, and we deserve as much. Together at Northwest and Delta they first negotiated and voted on a contract, and then merged their seniority lists.
Crewmembers at Northwest and Delta will not fly together until a single operating certificate is given by the FAA. We have a long way to go to get to that status. A rush to integrate seniority, before voting for representation and a contract, is like leaving the Superbowl before halftime.
As always, we welcome your feedback. Let us know if you have any questions and also give us the feedback you are hearing on the line.
SENIORITY LIST MEANINGLESS WITHOUT A CONTRACT
We recently received the recommendation put out by the Delta seniority integration committee. While the information seems stirring, any talks of merging our respective lists are premature. Delta executives are trying to call the game in the first quarter and that’s just not right. Instead, we need to focus on the “end game†of having a union vote and a contract.
Do not be lulled into a false sense of security as Delta executives continue to try to confuse and divide us and take away our right to an industry leading agreement for all flight attendants at the world’s largest carrier. Remember that the recommendation published this week by the Delta management sponsored committee and the Delta seniority list can be changed at any time without a contract.
A seniority list, in and of itself, is meaningless absent the protections of our agreement. The word “seniority†is written in our contract more than 350 times and involves many crucial provisions and sections of our collective bargaining agreement. While seniority is certainly the bedrock of our contract, it is just one of the many important issues that concern us – from our pay and benefits, to the scope of our work, and protections against outsourcing our jobs.
Though the Delta committee seems to agree with our longstanding AFA policy of “date-of-hireâ€, any talks of agreeing on a merged seniority list are simply not timely. Several steps need to occur prior to
merging our seniority lists including:
- A vote for AFA representation in which all flight attendants will have the opportunity to vote
- Surveying all flight attendants to determine our preferred priorities for negotiations
- Negotiate an industry leading contract at the world’s largest carrier
- All flight attendants will then have the opportunity vote on a negotiated agreement with Delta Air Lines.
Our timeline should flow like the pilots, and we deserve as much. Together at Northwest and Delta they first negotiated and voted on a contract, and then merged their seniority lists.
Crewmembers at Northwest and Delta will not fly together until a single operating certificate is given by the FAA. We have a long way to go to get to that status. A rush to integrate seniority, before voting for representation and a contract, is like leaving the Superbowl before halftime.
As always, we welcome your feedback. Let us know if you have any questions and also give us the feedback you are hearing on the line.
dapoes
Veteran
- May 17, 2008
- 3,543
- 2,716
dapoes
Veteran
- May 17, 2008
- 3,543
- 2,716
Because the pilots were both represented, by the same union.
If Delta flgiht attendants would have voted in AFA in the last election, Delta flight attendants would also be working under a new and improved contract, and would have received a larger share of "equity" in the company. However we know this didn't happen.
If Delta flgiht attendants would have voted in AFA in the last election, Delta flight attendants would also be working under a new and improved contract, and would have received a larger share of "equity" in the company. However we know this didn't happen.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #52
Once again, I will state: Any "perception" of a delay will not
bode well for the AFA. And a few of those on here who believe the last
election was not "fair" with out explaining how it wasn't fair
are just loosing credibility. The same few also believe the 14 members
of the committee are management "plants". Again loosing credibility.
They are Delta F/A's who decided this. Not Management.
I believe the AFA painted themselves into a corner with their "STRICT DOH" policy.
They haven't stated if they agree with the committee's recommendation, because
they can't. If they want to win over the pre-merger Delta f/a's and even those
who voted "for" AFA, they really need to "Know their greater audience" and
shift tactics. JMHO
bode well for the AFA. And a few of those on here who believe the last
election was not "fair" with out explaining how it wasn't fair
are just loosing credibility. The same few also believe the 14 members
of the committee are management "plants". Again loosing credibility.
They are Delta F/A's who decided this. Not Management.
I believe the AFA painted themselves into a corner with their "STRICT DOH" policy.
They haven't stated if they agree with the committee's recommendation, because
they can't. If they want to win over the pre-merger Delta f/a's and even those
who voted "for" AFA, they really need to "Know their greater audience" and
shift tactics. JMHO
BABABOOY,
The last election was all but fair. AFA filed 119 charges of interfearance, the NMB voted 2 to 1 and failed to even investigate these charges. Please look at this NMB, and you will see that its the most management friendly board in its history and our elected representatives acknowledge that. Not to mention the chair of the NMB was a director at NW and also has a stake in the outcome as her pension is tied to NW.
If you have a chance, go to DC...walk thru the Cannon house building and stop by the offices of U.S. representatives and ask them how they feel about Read Van de Water. You will see that even some Republicans can't stand her!
The last election was all but fair. AFA filed 119 charges of interfearance, the NMB voted 2 to 1 and failed to even investigate these charges. Please look at this NMB, and you will see that its the most management friendly board in its history and our elected representatives acknowledge that. Not to mention the chair of the NMB was a director at NW and also has a stake in the outcome as her pension is tied to NW.
If you have a chance, go to DC...walk thru the Cannon house building and stop by the offices of U.S. representatives and ask them how they feel about Read Van de Water. You will see that even some Republicans can't stand her!
that's true and our me too clause would have more than like been activated..regarding compensation..but that did not happen, its said and done unfortunately..however..
there is nothing preventing the planning of an election in the near future other than...some opinions the NMB isnt fair..but then I question, was our own election under the NMB that allowed the current association to come on the property..was that fair? were the last two Flight Attendant elections fair?
our contract is in jeopardy, we may actually.. this time lose all of it...one has to ask themselves, is dividing the same people that will ultimately pay dues..regarding not even an attempt.. showing real meaningful and wiliness to sit down and resolve these important issues worth it?
it appears they are flexing their muscles with the wrong people and disenfranchising the ones who ultimately will decide if there will be a union at all.
they lost the election simply because not enough participated, a lot..correct..but not enough.
I try very hard to be understanding in these issues, but on this one...the bottom line is simply
they didnt get enough votes...(unlike the others in their recent elections who did)
Dignity,
If you are a football team scheduling a football game...
Do you schedule the game knowing that the referees are biased towards the other side and gamble that you are strong enough to overcome all those challenges....or do you wait to schedule the game...upset some fans because they want to see the game now but ultimately win the game and win those fans back?
I am still waiting....what benefit is there to having an election today? for the working people NONE!
For management and their little group of puppets EVERYTHING!
When anyone comes up with any sort of benefit that will come out of having an unfair election today, I will rethink my position.
Today, we have support from 42% of the combined group...11% have not made up their mind...21% are against...and 26% have not yet been polled.
Remember, in the past election AFA had support from over 50%...yet only 40% voted, thats why Delta management wants to vote today. Because they will get away with murder!
If you are a football team scheduling a football game...
Do you schedule the game knowing that the referees are biased towards the other side and gamble that you are strong enough to overcome all those challenges....or do you wait to schedule the game...upset some fans because they want to see the game now but ultimately win the game and win those fans back?
I am still waiting....what benefit is there to having an election today? for the working people NONE!
For management and their little group of puppets EVERYTHING!
When anyone comes up with any sort of benefit that will come out of having an unfair election today, I will rethink my position.
Today, we have support from 42% of the combined group...11% have not made up their mind...21% are against...and 26% have not yet been polled.
Remember, in the past election AFA had support from over 50%...yet only 40% voted, thats why Delta management wants to vote today. Because they will get away with murder!
dapoes
Veteran
- May 17, 2008
- 3,543
- 2,716
Was it not this same NMB that ruled against DAL recently regarding pushing for a union vote? And so what will be AFA's excuse be when they fail again?
Whats amazing is AFA blames others for their epic failure. You think nobody hasnt noticed this? It doesn't bode well as it reflects poorly upon AFA. So lets say if DAL votes for AFA, when problems arise it appears that if AFA fails to accomplish anything, they will simply makes excuses for their inability.
dapoes
Veteran
- May 17, 2008
- 3,543
- 2,716
BS! AFA is trying to "game" it to their benefit!
jalbalpa,
while I try to be understanding, we must keep in mind, everything you have posted is simply your personal opinion and your own perception. unless you can actually prove what you say regarding "unfair', its simply..
an opinion..(that of course you are entitled too and I enjoy...reading)
let me ask you this...had McCain became the actual President and van de water remained in place...we would have never had an election?
I am not trying to debate your opinion, but we have to try to look at this situation from every angle.
LukeAisleWalker
Veteran
- Sep 29, 2007
- 715
- 2
I think because they were already both ALPA members. We have the added issue of a vote on whether to have representation or not. That's the difference as I understand it.
