USAir757 said:
Were you under the impression that I was "questioning your patriotism"?
I'll let you answer yourself on that one:
USAir757 said:
Feel the same way about our troops too?
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USAir757 said:
With all due respect, you were the one who made the concentration camp comparison, not me.
No, the comparison I made was to the environment that allowed the camps to exist in the first place, not to the camps themselves. I'm surprised I still have to explain that to you, you seemed smarter than that.
USAir757 said:
I am personally insulted by your response, and your suggestion that you are better because you "did your time in uniform" blindly suggests that who you speak to has not done the same or more.
Not at all. It says that having been one of the 'our troops' you were accusing me of defaming, I earned my right to free speech. If you find that insulting then I would say you were looking for something to be offended by and you found it. Enjoy!
USAir757 said:
Your Nazi comparison has nothing to do with the topic or the thread, your "Bush Leaguer" comment is inaccurate and erroneous, and your entire preceeding statement reeks of self-pity and arrogance.
Considering that the discussion veered from the topic of this thread several pages ago and that my statement about the Germans surrendering their freedoms in exchange for security directly addresses the discussion started on page 5 when KCFLYER brought up the KC Star story about the two college students, I'd say your assessment is incorrect and irrelevant. "Self-pity" and "arrogance"? No. Determination to see that such things never happen again? Yes.
My comment about the Bush Leaguers like Cheney who avoided service themselves but are so willing to send the sons and daughters of others, as long as it's nobody they know, was quite accurate. You just don't like it.
USAir757 said:
Watch a little too much Conspiracy Theory lately?
Nope. Just too many back door assaults on civil rights.
USAir757 said:
Do you honestly believe these people will become unemployable?
Lets look at the article from page 5 again:
"It keeps victimizing people at home. That intimidation was present with authorities videotaping protesters Tuesday during Bush's visit in Lee's Summit, and it singled out University of Missouri-Kansas City students Nathan Hoffmann and Erica Wiggins this summer.
Hoffmann said FBI agents visited his home, neighbors and job asking questions. It was in the run-up to the political conventions. The agents wanted to know whether they were planning violent acts at the conventions or at the presidential inauguration.
Hoffmann said they had a photo of him, but he didn't know how they got it. The agents knew he and his roommate were talking with someone about moving into their basement.
“Nobody knew about that,†Hoffmann said. They could only have gotten it from a wiretap on their phone, he said.
Jeff Lanza, special agent and spokesman with the FBI, would say only that the FBI has to check all possible terrorist threats.
Wiggins, who didn't talk to the FBI, said a protest the two attended in Denver probably landed them on a watch list.
“I think it's pretty shocking,†Wiggins said.
If you were his employer, would you look at this employee differently? If you were a prospective employer, would you hire someone the FBI was investigating? If you were the one being investigated, how would you feel if the only public thing the FBI would say when asked about your case was that "they had to check out all terrorist threats"? Think your prospective employers like that sort of thing?
USAir757 said:
And I'm sure they already know quite well why they're being investigated, that is if they are guilty of something. And if they're not, then they'll be on their way.
Apparently to you being investigated implies guilt, something the 4th amendment was written to address, at least until the patriot act came along. Either that or they aren't guilty and should just relax and wait until the investigation is over. Well then, everything's great, except for the potential damage done, regardless of guilt or innocence.
USAir757 said:
If these people did the same thing at an Anti-Kerry rally, I would hope they'd get the same kind of attention.
And what, exactly, did they do? That's the point, we don't know, they don't know and the FBI never has to tell anybody!
USAir757 said:
There were no charges, in this case. But to answer your question, yes. If the FBI thinks that I may be a terror suspect, or that I am planning an attack on this country, please investigate me.
How would you feel if someone you knew, maybe a estranged spouse, told the FBI that you were planning terrorist attacks? Since you never have to be told what the charge is or who the source is, you'd never know why you were being investigated. If you found out at all. Your employer would only know that the FBI was asking questions about you. Maybe, assuming you're an airline employee, your next FAA-required 10 year background check turned up a flag from the FBI and you weren't allowed in the AOA so you couldn't go to work. Still sound good to you?
USAir757 said:
I have absolutely nothing to hide.
You miss the point, that doesn't matter. The patriot act isn't limited to terrorism or anything else. It isn't about having something to hide, it's about having to hide anything.
USAir757 said:
I'd rather them do that, and find what my neighbor down the street might be hiding... so that when you and I are on our way to work, or at the public library, or at a sporting event, we will be less likely to be attacked by a terrorist.
Our nation has faced greater enemies before without gutting the Constitution, why do we need to now? Threats of internal terrorism? The Germans blew up an ammo terminal in New York harbor during WWI, yet we didn't allow the government to see what we read or monitor our conversations. Why now?
USAir757 said:
So I guess in your world that makes me German.
When asked why they knew nothing about the camps, the Germans responded almost unanimously that they 'didn't question such things because they were good Germans'. Since you are willing to make a similar trade, it's not my 'world' you need to be worried about, but the real one.
USAir757 said:
I never knew, go figure. Guess I ought to go rent Schindler's List.
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Schindler's list is about the camps and what I'm talking about happened outside the camps but considering your apparent (to use your favorite word) 'ignorance' about the subject, it might help.