WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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appears that there are rumors that US' PHL-TLV service is ending right after the first of the year?
confirmations?
discussion?
confirmations?
discussion?
TLV service ending?
- Thread starter WorldTraveler
- Start date
- Banned
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http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1450c9c25bd3b5096022a9f71&id=8b4a197134
Philadelphia to Tel Aviv Route to be Discontinued
Earlier this morning, the Company announced that it will be discontinuing its Philadelphia to Tel Aviv route on January 4, 2016. PHL-TLV has not performed well since its inception in 2009. Service between PHL and TLV has been a source of pride for the Philadelphia base and is a popular bid choice for Flight Attendants due to its high credit. According to American Airlines Management, in its six years, the Philadelphia to Tel Aviv route never turned a profit in any year, and has already lost over lost more than $20 million on this service in the past year alone. Philadelphia is the fifth largest city in the United States and is in the top twenty for busiest U.S. airports. We are currently in discussions with the Company regarding their plans for the distribution of time and the aircraft utilization. While we are disappointed in the loss of this route, APFA looks forward to future announcements of growth in PHL and other bases throughout the American Airlines system.
Here are Q and A's that the Company has released:
Q: Will the flight be reinstated in the future, perhaps when we have more opportunity to operate the route with a different aircraft or from a different hub like MIA or JFK?
A: We’ll certainly continue to monitor the viability of reinstating TLV service and will evaluate future opportunities as we bring in new aircraft to the fleet and our network evolves. At this time, we do not anticipate restarting service to Tel Aviv in the near future.
Q: Why did this route work for US Airways for years but shortly after the merger, it does not work for American?
A: The PHL TLV route has never been profitable for our airline. We want to give every route the chance to succeed, andwe gave it a fair shot, but at a certain point, no matter how much we want to serve a particular route; we have to make the right decision for our business.
Q: The PHL TLV flight traditionally operates with high load factors. How can it not be making money?
A: There are a lot of different factors that determine the overall success of a route. Load factor is not the only way, nor the best way, to judge a route’s performance. We also look at overall demand and the fares customers are willing to pay on that route. In the case of PHL TLV, a number of factors have resulted in poor financial performance.
Q: What will happen to customers who are ticketed on the PHL TLV service after the cancellation date?
A: American will be contacting all passengers to make alternative travel arrangements for them, or to offer a full refund. We apologize for the inconvenience that this decision will cause.
Q: What does this say about PHL as a hub? Is there enough connecting traffic for other international flights?
A: Our combined hub structure allows for each of our nine hubs to play a very important role in our overall network strategy. Looking at our international network, PHL is a prime hub for connecting customers to and from main business and leisure destinations throughout Europe and it will continue to be an important strategic hub for our partners through the Atlantic Joint Business.
Brian Clark
APFA National Communications Interim Chair
Philadelphia to Tel Aviv Route to be Discontinued
Earlier this morning, the Company announced that it will be discontinuing its Philadelphia to Tel Aviv route on January 4, 2016. PHL-TLV has not performed well since its inception in 2009. Service between PHL and TLV has been a source of pride for the Philadelphia base and is a popular bid choice for Flight Attendants due to its high credit. According to American Airlines Management, in its six years, the Philadelphia to Tel Aviv route never turned a profit in any year, and has already lost over lost more than $20 million on this service in the past year alone. Philadelphia is the fifth largest city in the United States and is in the top twenty for busiest U.S. airports. We are currently in discussions with the Company regarding their plans for the distribution of time and the aircraft utilization. While we are disappointed in the loss of this route, APFA looks forward to future announcements of growth in PHL and other bases throughout the American Airlines system.
Here are Q and A's that the Company has released:
Q: Will the flight be reinstated in the future, perhaps when we have more opportunity to operate the route with a different aircraft or from a different hub like MIA or JFK?
A: We’ll certainly continue to monitor the viability of reinstating TLV service and will evaluate future opportunities as we bring in new aircraft to the fleet and our network evolves. At this time, we do not anticipate restarting service to Tel Aviv in the near future.
Q: Why did this route work for US Airways for years but shortly after the merger, it does not work for American?
A: The PHL TLV route has never been profitable for our airline. We want to give every route the chance to succeed, andwe gave it a fair shot, but at a certain point, no matter how much we want to serve a particular route; we have to make the right decision for our business.
Q: The PHL TLV flight traditionally operates with high load factors. How can it not be making money?
A: There are a lot of different factors that determine the overall success of a route. Load factor is not the only way, nor the best way, to judge a route’s performance. We also look at overall demand and the fares customers are willing to pay on that route. In the case of PHL TLV, a number of factors have resulted in poor financial performance.
Q: What will happen to customers who are ticketed on the PHL TLV service after the cancellation date?
A: American will be contacting all passengers to make alternative travel arrangements for them, or to offer a full refund. We apologize for the inconvenience that this decision will cause.
Q: What does this say about PHL as a hub? Is there enough connecting traffic for other international flights?
A: Our combined hub structure allows for each of our nine hubs to play a very important role in our overall network strategy. Looking at our international network, PHL is a prime hub for connecting customers to and from main business and leisure destinations throughout Europe and it will continue to be an important strategic hub for our partners through the Atlantic Joint Business.
Brian Clark
APFA National Communications Interim Chair
OP
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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Given that jet fuel is probably now at the lowest level since US started the flight, it makes it all the more head-scratching that the economics don't work now, even given the higher labor costs that came with the merger.
US' PHL-TLV has 20% local PHL traffic compared to 50% for DL from JFK and 35% for UA from EWR.
US' PHL-TLV has 20% local PHL traffic compared to 50% for DL from JFK and 35% for UA from EWR.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
FWAAA said:
I don't think it was blather. It probably still makes money and always has. If they can't make money on such a long-haul route with extremely high load factors, expensive fares and a cargo hold full of pharmaceuticals (legal ones, of course) then they should close up shop now.
It is a smokescreen to justify some unpopular changes they are about to make. What they are remains to be seen. But they will likely show before the last PHL-TLV flight.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
wings396 said:
Exactly. This is a b... s... justification for changes they want to make system-wide.
OP
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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interesting the responses but not entirely surprising given the emotion that was attached to this flight.
1. US' average fares according to DOT data were similar to DL's from JFK. they weren't necessarily low. UA's average fares from EWR are higher but that probably speaks to UA's strength in Lower Manhattan which probably has a higher concentration of wealthier Jews working or living there and the geographic advantage EWR has to that area compared to JFK.
2. DL and UA both use 777s and for DL the 777 has about 40 more seats which might spread the costs a little more - but the 777 also burns more fuel.
3. the larger significance of the low PHL market share vs. DL and UA from NYC is likely that TLV is a key market for DL and UA both as part of corporate pricing from NYC but also as a frequent flyer burn market. DL might not make money on JFK-TLV but they might consider it part of the market they have to serve - just as Hawaii is to the western part of carriers' route systems - and the objective is thus to serve it the most economic way possible - which is why Hawaii is seeing more and more 737s, 321s, and 757-300s. For DL, it might mean the high weight versions of the 333 on JFK-TLV if they can figure out how to route the aircraft thru JFK.
4. If there is anything foreboding about the announcement, it might be that AA doesn't see the benefit of trying to use PHL international flights as a sales tool for winning business in NYC... which could either mean that AA isn't trying to maintain the size it has in NYC or it has given up on enough business already that its current size doesn't require holding onto some of the business which DL and UA can justify with larger contracts. If the LGA perimeter rule is dropped, not only will AA/US be even more foolish for wasting slots flying from PHL to LGA but also AA will be scrambling to be competitive from both LGA and JFK with far larger slot portfolios that DL and UA hold.
5. The CLT ground sheer incident highlighted that US is still flying very larger aircraft from other carrier hubs which was a key part of US' network strategy. ATL-CLT has very low local traffic percentage and given that ATL is a much larger hub than CLT, US counts on pulling traffic out of DL's ATL hub in order to support such large aircraft on ATL-CLT. It may well be that DL is doing the same thing to AA in larger measure; given that the leaked emails regarding post-merger pricing noted that AA/US would have to raise fares or risk having other carriers take AA's own traffic, AA might have reached the point where they have to start pulling back on traffic they are pulling from other carrier hubs. ATL and each of DL and UA's hubs are key O&Ds on US' PHL-TLV flight.
6. finally, you can't rule out the possibility that the former TWA issues regarding TLV are not as gone as some people want to believe they are and Israel is requiring that AA pay the amount it still owes (likely now with healthy amounts of interest) if it wants to continue serving Israel. Given that AA is not trying to transfer the route to another AA hub, the possibility can't be ruled out.
one thing is certain and that is that it is hard to believe that US never made money flying to Israel and that AA now has to pull the flight even as fuel is at the lowest price it has been in a very long time,
1. US' average fares according to DOT data were similar to DL's from JFK. they weren't necessarily low. UA's average fares from EWR are higher but that probably speaks to UA's strength in Lower Manhattan which probably has a higher concentration of wealthier Jews working or living there and the geographic advantage EWR has to that area compared to JFK.
2. DL and UA both use 777s and for DL the 777 has about 40 more seats which might spread the costs a little more - but the 777 also burns more fuel.
3. the larger significance of the low PHL market share vs. DL and UA from NYC is likely that TLV is a key market for DL and UA both as part of corporate pricing from NYC but also as a frequent flyer burn market. DL might not make money on JFK-TLV but they might consider it part of the market they have to serve - just as Hawaii is to the western part of carriers' route systems - and the objective is thus to serve it the most economic way possible - which is why Hawaii is seeing more and more 737s, 321s, and 757-300s. For DL, it might mean the high weight versions of the 333 on JFK-TLV if they can figure out how to route the aircraft thru JFK.
4. If there is anything foreboding about the announcement, it might be that AA doesn't see the benefit of trying to use PHL international flights as a sales tool for winning business in NYC... which could either mean that AA isn't trying to maintain the size it has in NYC or it has given up on enough business already that its current size doesn't require holding onto some of the business which DL and UA can justify with larger contracts. If the LGA perimeter rule is dropped, not only will AA/US be even more foolish for wasting slots flying from PHL to LGA but also AA will be scrambling to be competitive from both LGA and JFK with far larger slot portfolios that DL and UA hold.
5. The CLT ground sheer incident highlighted that US is still flying very larger aircraft from other carrier hubs which was a key part of US' network strategy. ATL-CLT has very low local traffic percentage and given that ATL is a much larger hub than CLT, US counts on pulling traffic out of DL's ATL hub in order to support such large aircraft on ATL-CLT. It may well be that DL is doing the same thing to AA in larger measure; given that the leaked emails regarding post-merger pricing noted that AA/US would have to raise fares or risk having other carriers take AA's own traffic, AA might have reached the point where they have to start pulling back on traffic they are pulling from other carrier hubs. ATL and each of DL and UA's hubs are key O&Ds on US' PHL-TLV flight.
6. finally, you can't rule out the possibility that the former TWA issues regarding TLV are not as gone as some people want to believe they are and Israel is requiring that AA pay the amount it still owes (likely now with healthy amounts of interest) if it wants to continue serving Israel. Given that AA is not trying to transfer the route to another AA hub, the possibility can't be ruled out.
one thing is certain and that is that it is hard to believe that US never made money flying to Israel and that AA now has to pull the flight even as fuel is at the lowest price it has been in a very long time,
im back..!!
Senior
- Mar 26, 2011
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I heard that the equipment (330-200) will be used on a new route.
PHX-LHR. Service to begin spring of 2016.
PHX-LHR. Service to begin spring of 2016.
AirbusA310
Member
- Aug 19, 2009
- 60
- 31
If it lost money from the start than why keep it all these years?? OSL ARN and BHX never made it past one season because of losses even the CLT-HNL and the PHL-ANC were short lived Parker never kept flight running if they weren't making $$$....there is more to this...
