Tulsa AMT movement.

[2ndGENAMT]

AA has all the cards, and if Tulsa doesn't like it, I'm sure El Salvador will. Plenty of South Americans and Central Americans getting A&Ps in Miami. I'm betting that there are a lot of cities and countries begging AA for our work. Isom wants phase inspections done on over night airplanes, and I'll tell you Isom will get phase inspections done on night shift. So Tulsa vote in contract like you're a line mech.
We here from union guys that business is different, new management not putting up with anything, sounds like to me that the executives are changing the culture from bending the rules to following the rules. So if you're the type of guy who uses a lot of union resources you might have a problem. We hear from the union guys "don't take food off the plane" "follow IAW" follow the CS policy as written. All easy rules to follow. I think the best thing for you to do is, manager tells you to do something just do it, as long as you follow IAW, GPM, AMM, CBA, all things they tell you to do. Let me throw in the IPC and red line book too.

The south of the border issue seems to pop up at "Negotiation" time and have heard someone say the Tulsa HMFIC has visited there and "Likes what he saw". Truth is the Mexican, Central American and South American air carriers are growing rapidly and they need to maintain their own fleets! These rumors are floated to spread fear and help get a concessionary contract passed. Not saying US carriers will not get their work done to some extent down south but fact is the worlds air carriers are getting more and more aircraft and well, machines need maintenance...

 

[topDawg]

The south of the border issue seems to pop up at "Negotiation" time and have heard someone say the Tulsa HMFIC has visited there and "Likes what he saw". Truth is the Mexican, Central American and South American air carriers are growing rapidly and they need to maintain their own fleets! These rumors are floated to spread fear and help get a concessionary contract passed. Not saying US carriers will not get their work done to some extent down south but fact is the worlds air carriers are getting more and more aircraft and well, machines need maintenance...

I have a honest question. 
 
Has any US airline had a problem finding space at MROs (be it China, Europe, South America etc) to send work to? I constantly hear that "the MROs are running out of space/people" but yet, seems like anytime an airline wants to outsource something they do it? 
 
Few resent examples, 
When Aveos shut down, Air Canada was able to find space for its fleet (~200 aircraft) over night at other MROs (mostly AAR and Aeroman). 
Your own airline found space in China for tons of mods and 777 work very easily (oh and airbus checks at BFM)
I know at Delta they have not have a single issue playing musical chairs with vendors and constantly switch things up. Same thing for United.
 
So my question is, how many times does out craft have to be slapped with the above before we realize that they will find space and if they don't they will just build it?

 

[Bob Owens]

You have no concept of how business works. AA doesn't own the hangars, they are wanting the city to upgrade the hangars to do the airbus and 737 work.

AA doesn't want to spend its own money upgrading hangars they dont own, they want a handout like you got from the government, just like most business do

Hmm, airlines build Hangers and upgrade terminals they don't own all the time. I agree that whenever they can they go for the handout but the reason you gave is wrong, they would try and get a handout even if they did own it. They don't own most of the planes either but they are constantly doing upgrades to them as well. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Well that is where you and I differ.
 
Apparently, and correct me if I am wrong, you believe that AA has Tulsa over a barrel and can dictate terms to them.
 
I see it as more of a symbiotic relationship where both the city and the company benefit.
 
 
 
Another thing you should consider is the city of Tulsa owns those hangers. The city should bear some of the responsibility for keeping the hangers in a usable condition for their client.
 
Why would Tulsa deny American Airlines request to spend 15 million dollars to upgrade hangers Tulsa owns, especially when American Airlines and the companies that support them put so much more into the tax pool?
 
 
 
If American Airlines did leave you really think those hangers would go empty?
 
I rather doubt it.

You answered your own question, "Why would Tulsa deny AA's request for $15million ? because "if AA did leave" you doubt "those hangars would go empty". 

 

[Bob Owens]

I have a honest question. 
 
Has any US airline had a problem finding space at MROs (be it China, Europe, South America etc) to send work to? I constantly hear that "the MROs are running out of space/people" but yet, seems like anytime an airline wants to outsource something they do it? 
 
Few resent examples, 
When Aveos shut down, Air Canada was able to find space for its fleet (~200 aircraft) over night at other MROs (mostly AAR and Aeroman). 
Your own airline found space in China for tons of mods and 777 work very easily (oh and airbus checks at BFM)
I know at Delta they have not have a single issue playing musical chairs with vendors and constantly switch things up. Same thing for United.
 
So my question is, how many times does out craft have to be slapped with the above before we realize that they will find space and if they don't they will just build it?

The question is if capacity was available then why didn't they outsource all of it? 
The company was the one that claimed that wide body capacity was available but that NB was not and if they tried to outsource NB that they likely would have had to pay a premium.

 

[Overspeed]

The question is if capacity was available then why didn't they outsource all of it? 
The company was the one that claimed that wide body capacity was available but that NB was not and if they tried to outsource NB that they likely would have had to pay a premium.

 
Bob,
Airbus outsourcing of LC is going away. If Kevin M is right the 319/321 will be doing phase Cs on the line. The former 514 AMTs will be coming out to JFK to do phase Cs like LUS does in a lot of its cities. Make sure you get them to sign a dues check off card and give them one of your union solidarity talks please.

 

[Overspeed]

I have a honest question. 
 
Has any US airline had a problem finding space at MROs (be it China, Europe, South America etc) to send work to? I constantly hear that "the MROs are running out of space/people" but yet, seems like anytime an airline wants to outsource something they do it? 
 
Few resent examples, 
When Aveos shut down, Air Canada was able to find space for its fleet (~200 aircraft) over night at other MROs (mostly AAR and Aeroman). 
Your own airline found space in China for tons of mods and 777 work very easily (oh and airbus checks at BFM)
I know at Delta they have not have a single issue playing musical chairs with vendors and constantly switch things up. Same thing for United.
 
So my question is, how many times does out craft have to be slapped with the above before we realize that they will find space and if they don't they will just build it?

 
AA is up to six 777s in HKG. All you have to do is look at MAPS and see the work packs scheduled.

 

[Buck]

 
AA is up to six 777s in HKG. All you have to do is look at MAPS and see the work packs scheduled.

Are they going to overhaul 777's in Tulsa?

 

[Overspeed]

Are they going to overhaul 777's in Tulsa?

 
They are filling up HKG so I would say most likely not

 

[MetalMover]

 
Bob,
Airbus outsourcing of LC is going away. If Kevin M is right the 319/321 will be doing phase Cs on the line. The former 514 AMTs will be coming out to JFK to do phase Cs like LUS does in a lot of its cities. Make sure you get them to sign a dues check off card and give them one of your union solidarity talks please.

You mean...If they don't like it, they can just move to the line? Like the line guys were preached to for decades about moving to TULE if we didn't like it?  Welcome!

 

[1AA]

There will be many in Tulsa that will not leave for places like JFK, ORD, LAX and MIA. If this were to happen you might see a deal made to get the work close to home for these guys like at DWH or DFW. I'm sure a handful would retire instead of commuting. The Tulsa lifestyle and mentality is unique. Many in Tulsa mostly from union guys always said if you don't like it in New York then move to Tulsa. I'm sure the younger guys if there are any left will make some kind of move and others will probably stay after the union comes up with another low paying AMT scale to save jobs and Tulsa. With the TWU history always repeats itself every 10 years or so. Thank goodness we have the association to save our A$$,

 

[Overspeed]

You mean...If they don't like it, they can just move to the line? Like the line guys were preached to for decades about moving to TULE if we didn't like it?  Welcome!

 
I don't think its a question of asking TULE if they can move the LC out to the line, it's just that's the way US does their Airbus LC in phase checks on the line. So looking at where they fly I'd say JFK, LAX, SFO, and DFW are options however Wroble pulled most of the big checks out of DFW so I don't know what the future will look like. Maybe GP and Wroble will make up before it comes in to play and DFW will get the work.

 

[700UW]

The last C-Check which is the C12 as done at heavy as are the S-Checks, which occur every five to six years depending on when the plane was built, the S-Check is all the C's put together and then more work and that is done at heavy, not line.

 

[Overspeed]

There will be many in Tulsa that will not leave for places like JFK, ORD, LAX and MIA. If this were to happen you might see a deal made to get the work close to home for these guys like at DWH or DFW. I'm sure a handful would retire instead of commuting. The Tulsa lifestyle and mentality is unique. Many in Tulsa mostly from union guys always said if you don't like it in New York then move to Tulsa. I'm sure the younger guys if there are any left will make some kind of move and others will probably stay after the union comes up with another low paying AMT scale to save jobs and Tulsa. With the TWU history always repeats itself every 10 years or so. Thank goodness we have the association to save our A$$,

 
Irony of the situation if it plays out where the LCs end up on the line, it will expose the TUL set that clinged to the idea the LC and HC could only stay in the base. More votes for a COLA by station possibly.

 

[Overspeed]

The last C-Check which is the C12 as done at heavy as are the S-Checks, which occur every five to six years depending on when the plane was built, the S-Check is all the C's put together and then more work and that is done at heavy, not line.

 
C12? 48 months? The LC is every 24 I believe.