US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

You are just asking for the CACTUS 19

 

[Black Swan]

Any of you guys in the Cactus 18?

 

[Hate2fly]

RM

 

[Freebird]

OK Here goes - MC

MC Hammer?

When you saw the AWA pilot in MCO, were you wearing Captain stripes? I think I may have seen you. Do you have the gray hair and beer belly? I couldnt tell which one was the real captain. You didnt look too happy though...

 

[Hate2fly]

I am affixing my initials to this post. Would everyone please do the same. This will give me a good idea of who you might be, while at the same time you will not expose your true identity. I will try to remember to do so each time I post.

With the exception of AAA73 and Cubfan - I don't even know who the other east posters are - let alone the west.

Why don't we all put at least a little skin in this game.

KV

Piedmont1984,

We saw you at the meeting the other day. Last row.

Hate

 

[Black Swan]

Piedmont1984,

We saw you at the meeting the other day. Last row.

Hate

Yes, from the place with no snow.

 

[Black Swan]

Piedmont1984,

We saw you at the meeting the other day. Last row.

Hate

Tracy and Mike gave a great overview on the LOA 93 and Addington. I wish some of the Westies on the overnight would have come. It would have been good to meet some of them in a neutral setting....

 

[AWE Dog]

Since you insist on playing games instead of having a discussion I will educate you again.

The average age of the east pilot. Average birthday 5/7/1956 19,644 days 53.8 years old

The average age of the west pilot. Average birthday 6/27/1961 17,767 days 48.6 years old

Now can we get past the "young" and the "kids" remarks I really don't think a 48 year old man or women counts as a kid.

Still want to play games?

BTW before you throw an hissy fit. These numbers come from the east spread sheet floating around at the merger. Not my numbers I am just passing on the data.

I don't buy it. I have no idea what list was used to come up with this number. I'm junior and only have a few guys younger than myself that are senior to me and I'm close to your 53 age average. Just doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[CallawayGolf]

It's a long story, but here is the condensed version. There were two airline groups. The airlines merged. One group got such a smoking deal, that it prevented the two airlines from merging. It was that lopsided. See, if it was somewhat fair, it would have worked. It was SO screwed up, it was beyond merging. The proof? The one side that wants it to go through so bad, got the deal. The one that got hosed, that is the one that does not want it. If something is THIS divisive, it can't be normal. I hope this helps.

So that’s the biased viewpoint. Here are the facts in brief:

Two pre-merger pilot groups and the company signed a transition agreement that stipulated how the combined pilot seniority list would be determined. That process included a very typical Negotiation – Mediation – Arbitration. Unable to come to an agreement via Negotiation or Mediation, the process went to Binding Arbitration.

A list of five certified arbitrators experienced in labor disputes including pilots was presented. Each side struck two arbitrators leaving the fifth to determine the list along with two pilot neutrals. He sought input from both groups and asked for them to moderate their positions. Neither side made any meaningful compromises so the arbitrators took all the facts presented to the board and developed a seniority list for the combined groups that met the transition agreement criteria. This list was presented to the company and it was accepted as the new seniority list per the transition agreement.

Faced with the loss of their desired Date of Hire position, the east pilots began a campaign to decertify the now former bargaining agent, ALPA, and replace it with an upstart, internal union called USAPA. This union, according to documents and depositions presented in a federal lawsuit, was formed and elected to be the CBA based on a promise of subverting the binding arbitration award.

USAPA won the representation election to replace ALPA and has been found to have violated their Duty to Fair Representation of all US Airways pilots by a federal court and a jury of their peers. This verdict is a direct result of USAPA’s failure to negotiate a new Collective Bargaining Agreement using the new list and rather pursuing the DOH seniority that was rejected by the binding arbitration award.

The two groups are tangled in a complex, and highly emotional legal battle regarding the above. The fairness of the arbitration award and the integrity of those who choose to believe it no longer is in force represent the bulk of the contentions and discussions on this board.

Now for my opinion - the award is exceedingly fair and USAPA will ultimately be forced to capitulate unless they simply dissolve the organization having failed at their only true objective. The USAPA supporters are more than willing to drag this untenable position out as long as they can because every day the award isn’t implemented is considered a win. If they can push that position, even to their own financial harm, all the way to retirement then they effectively “beat the systemâ€￾ even if this is accomplished through spurious legal maneuvers and highly questionable moral conduct.

 

[aquagreen73s]

With the exception of AAA73 and Cubfan - I don't even know who the other east posters are - let alone the west.

I know it's not the thrust of your post, but for the record AAA73 is an honorable man. No slight against Cubfan for not including him, but I have no idea who he is; nor do I need to know.

 

[nic4us]

I am affixing my initials to this post. Would everyone please do the same. This will give me a good idea of who you might be, while at the same time you will not expose your true identity. I will try to remember to do so each time I post.

With the exception of AAA73 and Cubfan - I don't even know who the other east posters are - let alone the west.

Why don't we all put at least a little skin in this game.

KV

KV,

I would be glad to have an open discussion with you, cubfan, pibrat, V1cut even eastus, but not on this forum, and even if we were speaking face to face I would not divulge my Usaviation persona.

The West posters concerns are not unfounded. A few of the Cactus 18 were some of the most vocal posters on the ALPA national board, and when they carried their "humor" over to the AWAPA forum, look where it got them. They also happen to be some of the guys with the weakest case against them, and it gives the appearance they are named as retribution for things they said on the ALPA board.

There are forums where we have our names attached, this ain't one of them, and as a non dues paying, ardent supporter of the Nic, there is no way I am telling usapa my identity.

 

[cleardirect]

I don't buy it. I have no idea what list was used to come up with this number. I'm junior and only have a few guys younger than myself that are senior to me and I'm close to your 53 age average. Just doesn't seem to make sense.

I know that it does not match the urban myth that has been created. But those are the facts from the spread sheet built by an east guy to prove something.

Do your own research, answer the question yourself.

 

[Phoenix]

Fellow pilots,

My name is Goat Shoap, and I seek to serve our pilot group in the office of PHX Domicile Representative and I am asking for your support. .....yadda, yadda, yadda...


In Solidarity,
Captain Goat Shoap

His goat video was legendary.... Being really good at youtube production is important for a rep.

Just ask the ALPA sycophants that used YouTube to warn us "An independent union is not the way to go!" Not the Way to Go!

For the right award, they all have my vote hands down.

 

[CallawayGolf]

His goat video was legendary.... Being really good at youtube production is important for a rep.

Just ask the ALPA sycophants that used YouTube to warn us "An independent union is not the way to go!" Not the Way to Go!

For the right award, they all have my vote hands down.

ALPA has nothing to offer. Of course what USAPA offers is despicable incompetence, pernicious leadership, and ultimately total despondence for the east pilots as they fail to produce any tangible benefit to the east or west.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You have text book STOCKHOLM SYNDROME you diss you own biggest international hub. You are UNBELIEVABLE!!

Looks like somebody had a bad day. If the facts I presented are wrong, present opposing facts. Having a tantrum does nothing but make you look foolish.

Jim