US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/18-6/23-Stay on Topic and Observe the Rules
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
- Status
hp_fa
Veteran
- Feb 19, 2004
- 3,290
- 178
Let's ponder some strategy, which means long term thinking.
USAPA is fighting tooth and nail for reversible error which is absolutely their right. So let's assume that in 12 months that the Ninth Circuit grants USAPA everything it wants as far as a new trial and remands the case for a new trial. What do you think will happen at a new trial, especially if Stephan Bradford is correctly served a subpoena for trial? What is going to happen when he has to testify and there is already a paper trail that will lock in his testimony about hos motivations in forming USAPA? Remember that there is documentation that at least partially establishes that it was to defeat Nicolau.
Now I am not trying to open up wounds here. I am suggesting that the expense of time, money and effort is likely futile.
Folks need to think ahead and, at the same time, realize that the company is not going to be serious until the pilots get this behind them.
USAPA is fighting tooth and nail for reversible error which is absolutely their right. So let's assume that in 12 months that the Ninth Circuit grants USAPA everything it wants as far as a new trial and remands the case for a new trial. What do you think will happen at a new trial, especially if Stephan Bradford is correctly served a subpoena for trial? What is going to happen when he has to testify and there is already a paper trail that will lock in his testimony about hos motivations in forming USAPA? Remember that there is documentation that at least partially establishes that it was to defeat Nicolau.
Now I am not trying to open up wounds here. I am suggesting that the expense of time, money and effort is likely futile.
Folks need to think ahead and, at the same time, realize that the company is not going to be serious until the pilots get this behind them.
Well, of course you are opening "old wounds"...and you know it. You, and all your west buddies have a new campaign underway to attempt to convince the east to drop all this and "move on"...even prechillil wants to help us poor defenseless fools out east. Stevie Wonder could see what is behind all this....and yet you all want to "save us from ourselves".
Wakes remedy will determine what happens next, in the meantime...the grind continues.
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
I think you will see things get "quite " serious early next year at least on the East side.
aquagreen73s says: Enjoy each day as you don't know whether it will be your last - a CAL captain made the final journey not long ago while flying trans Atlantic. 777 is now turning around for EWR. So sorry.
However, I can't help but notice: he had a little over 20 years with CAL and he was a 777 captain. So, 20 years nets a widebody captain position at CAL (and every other major airline), but at the East it nets you a furlough ticket.
See the problem with DOH?
The airline said the crew on the flight included an additional relief pilot who took the place of the deceased man. The pilot had 21 years of service with Continental, the airline said."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/18/pilot.dead/index.html
Here's another one:
"Continental Airlines released a statement saying the deceased Newark-based pilot was 61 years old, had 21 years of service with the company and died in flight of natural causes."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,527076,00.html
That makes him an 88 hire. Furlough fodder on the East, 777 captain at CAL. See the problem with DOH?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,527076,00.html
Continental Airlines released a statement saying the deceased Newark-based pilot was 60 years old, had 32 years of service with the company and died in flight of natural causes.
However, I can't help but notice: he had a little over 20 years with CAL and he was a 777 captain. So, 20 years nets a widebody captain position at CAL (and every other major airline), but at the East it nets you a furlough ticket.
See the problem with DOH?
The airline said the crew on the flight included an additional relief pilot who took the place of the deceased man. The pilot had 21 years of service with Continental, the airline said."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/18/pilot.dead/index.html
Here's another one:
"Continental Airlines released a statement saying the deceased Newark-based pilot was 61 years old, had 21 years of service with the company and died in flight of natural causes."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,527076,00.html
That makes him an 88 hire. Furlough fodder on the East, 777 captain at CAL. See the problem with DOH?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,527076,00.html
Continental Airlines released a statement saying the deceased Newark-based pilot was 60 years old, had 32 years of service with the company and died in flight of natural causes.
Well, somehow...in some hard-to-explain-to-us-east-idiots kinda way...I'm sure a poor old CAL Captain "coasting out" has something to do with USAPA and DOH....
(as aquagreen73's suggests)
The fact that his haste to tie them together results in incorrect data is irrelevent, I'm sure.
(as aquagreen73's suggests)
The fact that his haste to tie them together results in incorrect data is irrelevent, I'm sure.
hp_fa
Veteran
- Feb 19, 2004
- 3,290
- 178
Actually you are wrong. I am suggesting that folks think ahead and not in the moment. If that causes pain I am sorry, but it is not the intent.
hp, The west misconception is that USAPA was formed to get around the Nicolau award!
USAPA was formed for three major reasons:
1. Pension given away without a vote from the membership. Big mistake!
2. LOA93 has put this pilot group at the bottom of the industry in wages.
3. Nicolau Award windfall for the west.
Even if ALPA had fixed the Nic....... I still think they would have been voted off the island
You mean the guys who will never upgrade at USAirways on the East now after 23+ years of continuous service to the company?...(under the Nic)....that kind of thinking ahead?
While they have waited and taken concessions to save USAir over their entire career (they are mostly in their 50's now...) they should consider the 1000+ west pilots who will upgrade in front of them with a warm fuzzy feeling...now I see your point.
yeah.
hp_fa
Veteran
- Feb 19, 2004
- 3,290
- 178
Hi Hate,
The problem with what you suggest is that the Addington plaintiffs provided at least some evidence to the contrary in court. I do know that what you suggest was discussed at length in the pilot forums here during the campaign and I don't contend otherwise. However it sure seemed to me that the evidence introduced at trial strong suggested that Bradford had received legal advice based upon overturning Nicolau as a primary concern and for him to keep anyone from finding out that was the primary purpose in forming USAPA because courts would find that doing so would likely lead to a successful DFR.
hp_fa
Veteran
- Feb 19, 2004
- 3,290
- 178
I know this is a technical point, but how can a pilot have 23+ years of continuous service at a company that has only existed 3+ years?
I hasten to point out that your amazement is not germaine to our internal issues. You buy a ticket on an airline...maybe LCC, maybe not. You arrive at your destination. The "who, what, when, where, why, and how" of how it happens are certainly areas of your concern. How we decide what is important to the pilots at this airline who are locked behind the door up front certainly is not. How much we spend in those determinations is not. Why we spend in those determinations is not.
Hey, we can play any way you want HP....I can help explain it to you if you missed it in the courtroom...
Hey! wait a minute...your premise makes ALL pilots at the NEW company with 3 years....right?
What the heck are we arguing for?
I think I see your confusion now.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
