US Pilots Labor Topic-Aug 1-5

[nic4us]

Well since many of you have proudly sphewed that you would cross any picket line out East I would say, no. However, if you guys put in writing that you will never fly our International routes then my West brother full of integrity and attitude you have a deal.

First, let me say that I would not cross a USAPA picket line ( but that is pretty shallow since there would most likely never be one), but I would be damned if I would walk one under present circumstances.

But let me ask you this. What do you consider "your" international routes? Many have been added since the merger, Tel Aviv, Rio etc...do you consider those "yours"? I consider any growth and change as "ours" collectively east/west. You are quite wecome to CLT-HNL PHX-jamaica, as far as I am concerned, it all comes out in the wash as we all merge into route structures neither previously flew.

 

[hp_fa]

hp says a lot of things. Like the appeal would take 18 months, 2 years, 3 years. A bit off on those learned predictions. Oh, it was expedited because AOL didn't protest? Spare me. Even without a protest, Appeals courts seldom take expedited appeals. Why ours? 2 good reasons, 1st, ripeness. 2 courts ruling differntly on whether the case was ripe. 2nd, the 9th legal screeners most likely saw that letting this appeal run the normal course deprived union members the right to negotiate a timely contract. 9th Circuit isnt exactly anti-union.

Wow, hello to you too. Did you wake up cranky today or did something else cause this explosion?

 

[luvn737s]

So far...there's been absolutely ZERO viable, or even half-azzed attempts at answering the basic, seemingly very reasonable question = "What person, in their even remotely right mind, would see ANY benefits to caving in and bending over for the nic obscenity at the present time? What possible and actually rational basis would there be for doing so?"

So as long as you keep trying the Hail Mary play, why try any proven winning strategy? Look at the track record of USAPA so far and tell us why anyone in their right mind would continue to follow them. Continuing USAPA's present backward-looking, fear-based strategy will not provide any tangible benefit to any US pilot. It hasn't so far and will not in the future.

I'm all ears......?

Oh, really?

 

[HPDriver]

Yes, they have to say they accepted "the list". It is law. Until another list is presented. Are you so silly you cannot understand this? Take your weak spine somewhere else. Please.

Someone has obviously not been keeping up with things.

Injunction? Wake?

 

[Hawkhunter]

First, let me say that I would not cross a USAPA picket line ( but that is pretty shallow since there would most likely never be one), but I would be damned if I would walk one under present circumstances.

But let me ask you this. What do you consider "your" international routes? Many have been added since the merger, Tel Aviv, Rio etc...do you consider those "yours"? I consider any growth and change as "ours" collectively east/west. You are quite wecome to CLT-HNL PHX-jamaica, as far as I am concerned, it all comes out in the wash as we all merge into route structures neither previously flew.

I was responding to the statement that the East should refuse MBJ. I am glad you wouldnt cross the line like many of your fellow Westies have stated. I agree we should share any growth. So I gather you do not agree with cleardirect.

 

[cactusboy53]

Barrister, the TRUTH wont make Cleardirect smile. Another attempt at smear. Yes, the DOL is conducting an investigation. Yes, they interviewed Cleary in CLT. Here the rest of the story.

Remember David Schoppaul, .... Dave wasn't allowed to run for USAPA president the 1st vote last April. He went to the USAPA Appeals Board and they ruled he could run, despite his rhetoric to destroy our union. So he ran against Cleary in the rerun and lost 1800+ to 180. After losing, Schoppaul filed complaint with DOL. This was DOL's investigation.

Schoppaul has no case. DOL investigator just doing her job, filling in the squares. Why no case? DOL rules require 2 elements to substantiate a violation. 1) wrongdoing 2) outcome determinative. The first is a joke. The 2nd? Schoppaul lost by over 10 to 1!

Complaint filed has to be investigated, even if no merit. This is a non-issue. Don't take my word for it or our legal counsel. We went to John Heaney, 25-year OLMS investigator for the DOL. He now advises for Ballot Point to keep unions from making election mistakes.

Snooper;
I'm of the opinion that this is a little more serious than what your spin implies. Dave Schoppaul was not allowed to run in the first election. By then allowing Dave to run against JUST Cleary, you have taken away many different outcomes of a complete election re-run. I am a member in good standing, and I have serious issues about not running a complete new election. Further, I have communicated the same to the USAPA election officials. What a surprise, they thought they did everything on the up & up.

Bradford and now Cleary are leading USAPA down a path of certain destruction and financial pain. This election snafu is only one more piece of wood added to the fire.

For those East pilots that are just sitting by paying dues and watching this train wreck happen, STOP WATCHING AND DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY, TRANSPARENCY AND COMMON SENSE. If USAPA ultimately fails and there are financial penalties.....guess who will be on the hook for them? YOU WILL!!!

 

[nic4us]

I was responding to the statement that the East should refuse MBJ. I am glad you wouldnt cross the line like many of your fellow Westies have stated. I agree we should share any growth. So I gather you do not agree with cleardirect.

Normally I agree with Clear on basics. I believe he may feel the same as me and understands that just because a flight originates in PHX does not make it a west flight necessarily. I am just saying growth should be shared wether it is domestic or international.

 

[HPDriver]

...growth should be shared wether it is domestic or international.

It will be via Nic with Wake making sure.

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (EastUS @ Aug 5 2009, 07:30 PM) *
So far...there's been absolutely ZERO viable, or even half-azzed attempts at answering the basic, seemingly very reasonable question = "What person, in their even remotely right mind, would see ANY benefits to caving in and bending over for the nic obscenity at the present time? What possible and actually rational basis would there be for doing so?"

So as long as you keep trying the Hail Mary play, why try any proven winning strategy?

As expected....The west has no actual answer to offer to that very basic question.

 

[HPDriver]

Thank you Snoop, so technically I was wrong, there is an investigation just not in the tone or substance that the writer wants us to believe.

No, Snoop is understating the tone of the investigation as it is quite serious.

I expect the last election to be rerun once again so that it is both fair and democratic.