Why there will never be a T.A.

[AANOTOK]

Not trying to get back into a feud with you but where did P. Rez say that he didn’t want to agree to have a vote prior to Section 6 or that he was depriving anyone of a vote because he felt the majority would pass it?

Have you spoken to Fa about what his opinions are for what is floating out there from the Company right now and if he wants to send us just any old any old?

A few pages back, I do believe he stated he did not want a vote because he did feel it would pass. He held the belief and pretty strongly at that, we were headed to section 6. As for Fa, no, directly I have not. Again, it’s the IAM, who are pretty vocal and clear imo, that anything with our healthcare attached should not be brought up for a vote. Therefore, what is the next option. As a matter of fact, you read the comments around the world, many IAM members relay the same thing, they are happy now, let it get delayed until sec 6. Is that the majority of Association members feelings, or is it a minority???
Back to Fa, or TWU, it really doesn’t matter what they want, if the IAM wants to put a lid on a vote, they put a lid on it, minority or not. That really is the point here.

 

[P. REZ]

A few pages back, I do believe he stated he did not want a vote because he did feel it would pass. He held the belief and pretty strongly at that, we were headed to section 6. As for Fa, no, directly I have not. Again, it’s the IAM, who are pretty vocal and clear imo, that anything with our healthcare attached should not be brought up for a vote. Therefore, what is the next option. As a matter of fact, you read the comments around the world, many IAM members relay the same thing, they are happy now, let it get delayed until sec 6. Is that the majority of Association members feelings, or is it a minority???
Back to Fa, or TWU, it really doesn’t matter what they want, if the IAM wants to put a lid on a vote, they put a lid on it, minority or not. That really is the point here.

AANOTOK,

I don't believe I ever said that. I did say I thought we were headed to section 6. My personal opinion is that the supposals are lacking in too many ways, from insurance, wages, pension/401k, scope, PT ratio, etc.

When the deal is ready to be brought out, it will be brought out. I want a deal as much as anybody, but not a **** deal.

P. Rez

 

[AANOTOK]

AANOTOK,

I don't believe I ever said that. I did say I thought we were headed to section 6. My personal opinion is that the supposals are lacking in too many ways, from insurance, wages, pension/401k, scope, PT ratio, etc.

When the deal is ready to be brought out, it will be brought out. I want a deal as much as anybody, but not a **** deal.

P. Rez

Just to be straight, you did state that a vote allowed now would pass in your opinion and a sec 6 was the probable direction. I just tied the two together. No, I do not recall you actually stating there would be no vote.

 

[P. REZ]

Just to be straight, you did state that a vote allowed now would pass in your opinion and a sec 6 was the probable direction. I just tied the two together. No, I do not recall you actually stating there would be no vote.

No, the only thing I remember saying about a vote was countering Tim Nelson that I didn’t think it would pass when he kept saying it would pass by 95%. I believe the IAM side would be a huge no and enough TWU would vote no because of wanting our insurance, OT process, shift swaps, PT ratio and the details. Hell, the TWU guys in PHX are telling me they are voting no if what they are reading from Company comes out for a vote.

P. Rez

 

[WeAAsles]

You're an absolute lost cause.

Done with you.

You angry Minion you.

 

[AANOTOK]

No, the only thing I remember saying about a vote was countering Tim Nelson that I didn’t think it would pass when he kept saying it would pass by 95%. I believe the IAM side would be a huge no and enough TWU would vote no because of wanting our insurance, OT process, shift swaps, PT ratio and the details. Hell, the TWU guys in PHX are telling me they are voting no if what they are reading from Company comes out for a vote.

P. Rez

I hardly ever go back numerous pages to prove someone wrong, or me right. Well I did just that.
My apologies to P. REZ. It was not a comment from him, it was actually a comment about putting this Sub par proposal out there for a vote and this persons opinion it would unfortunately pass. I will not throw another person under the bus, therefore I will withhold his name. I will say he is a member of the IAM yet he is not part of the NC...(and it's not Tim). Again, sorry P, my bad.

 

[bigjets]

I find it funny that we all believe a contract vote would pass, based on AA bullet points, and if the full language isnt Bad.

If the NC brings back a contract wether we vote it in or not, at least the membership could voice our opinion on which way negotiations should go.

 

[P. REZ]

I hardly ever go back numerous pages to prove someone wrong, or me right. Well I did just that.
My apologies to P. REZ. It was not a comment from him, it was actually a comment about putting this Sub par proposal out there for a vote and this persons opinion it would unfortunately pass. I will not throw another person under the bus, therefore I will withhold his name. I will say he is a member of the IAM yet he is not part of the NC...(and it's not Tim). Again, sorry P, my bad.

No problem!

 

[WeAAsles]

I find it funny that we all believe a contract vote would pass, based on AA bullet points, and if the full language isnt Bad.

If the NC brings back a contract wether we vote it in or not, at least the membership could voice our opinion on which way negotiations should go.

Maybe if the Company does offer up what they say is a final offer before going in to Section 6 and asking a Mediator to formally enter the proceedings our Negotiators will give us that opportunity to choose the next course?

First the Company has to be a lot more transparent and stop with the “testers” and present the formal proposals. Without hiding the fine print which we are going to read and get out all over Social Media before any vote.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

AANOTOK,

I don't believe I ever said that. I did say I thought we were headed to section 6. My personal opinion is that the supposals are lacking in too many ways, from insurance, wages, pension/401k, scope, PT ratio, etc.

When the deal is ready to be brought out, it will be brought out. I want a deal as much as anybody, but not a **** deal.

P. Rez

- i believe that NYer claimed the PT ratio is done and dusted through an OT article that has been TAed? does that in itself, create a PT ratio that is now much more favorable to the company, or is it a wash with current caps?

- as far as wages, would you be content/happy with 3% more than ua's dec. 2018 raise ($31.23/hr) on DOS and then 2% more every year for the duration of the contract?

 

[P. REZ]

- i believe that NYer claimed the PT ratio is done and dusted through an OT article that has been TAed? does that in itself, create a PT ratio that is now much more favorable to the company, or is it a wash with current caps?

- as far as wages, would you be content/happy with 3% more than ua's dec. 2018 raise ($31.23/hr) on DOS and then 2% more every year for the duration of the contract?

CremaDiLimone,

I believe NYer said that the PT was kept in check through the TWU OT and now that won't necessarily be the case. The company wants to get rid of the TWU floors and go with just 40% PT of total employees systemwide. Note: Not per station, but systemwide.

As far as wages, we want the wages even higher or better profit sharing because UA and DL have better profit sharing.

P. Rez

 

[bigjets]

Just read the update, the association wants our support. Which is of course a reasonable request. I do feel their rhetoric is inflammatory. The ass. have always said the money was there. 3% above DAL, is the healthcare inferior to the APA and APFA or are they referring to what the IAM currently has?

Of course I’m sure we would all be hard core union guys if we actually had a chance to vote on which union we wanted. Just another way we all feel beaten down. 15 years of concessions ( IMO 10 years because of the union) and now the association forced on us, probably by one guy out of touch of the actual working man.

The Association weakened themselves by their thug like takeover of our union dues.

Here’s a conspiracy for you. The longer we are in negotiations, the longer the association has this garenteed amount of union dues going to the association AFL/CIO.

I know I should believe everything the association tells me, but the guys I am forced to pay without any accountability to me, and has been less then honorable in their actions with me. Examples.

The forming of the association

We get a pay raise. Jim Little got a pay raise. (Sounds righteous)

We take a pay cut, Jim Little doesn’t. Now his pay is tide to how big the union is and should he paid like a CEO of a similar sized company.

And we can go on and on.

I find it weird how the association can’t come to agreement now because they say we are giving concessions, but we got the big raise with concessions. 8 year top out and AAs right to cross utilize us.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

No, the only thing I remember saying about a vote was countering Tim Nelson that I didn’t think it would pass when he kept saying it would pass by 95%. I believe the IAM side would be a huge no and enough TWU would vote no because of wanting our insurance, OT process, shift swaps, PT ratio and the details. Hell, the TWU guys in PHX are telling me they are voting no if what they are reading from Company comes out for a vote.

P. Rez

I can tell you that the IAM LUS Insurance will not have any Influence on a JCBA Vote with TWU members at TULE. We have already been paying the high premiums for years anyway. We want the Money-OUR HOLIDAYS BACK- Vacation- Enhanced 401 K.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

CremaDiLimone,

I believe NYer said that the PT was kept in check through the TWU OT and now that won't necessarily be the case. The company wants to get rid of the TWU floors and go with just 40% PT of total employees systemwide. Note: Not per station, but systemwide.

As far as wages, we want the wages even higher or better profit sharing because UA and DL have better profit sharing.

P. Rez

ok...so, currently, the 'floor' for PT levels is not TAed? can you tell me what the current floor is for twu laa?

i believe in my station (hub), as in most other hubs, the current % of PTers is 39.something% PT. it's almost 40% now, though i realize if things change; the way the company 'wants', the whole station could theoretically be PT.

since PTers at aa receive roughly the same benefits as a FT, is this issue really that important to the company, or, could this be a fake issue the company is willing to let go, only to claim it made a concession to us?

as far as wages, is there a % number higher than ua(i hope ua and not dl) that you believe would be sufficient on DOS if aa doesn't budge on profit sharing?

i also realize that even if we had ua's, let alone dl's plans, individual checks would be more diluted due to the number of employees.

 

[B737 driver]

Just read the update, the association wants our support. Which is of course a reasonable request. I do feel their rhetoric is inflammatory. The ass. have always said the money was there. 3% above DAL, is the healthcare inferior to the APA and APFA or are they referring to what the IAM currently has?

Of course I’m sure we would all be hard core union guys if we actually had a chance to vote on which union we wanted. Just another way we all feel beaten down. 15 years of concessions ( IMO 10 years because of the union) and now the association forced on us, probably by one guy out of touch of the actual working man.

The Association weakened themselves by their thug like takeover of our union dues.

Here’s a conspiracy for you. The longer we are in negotiations, the longer the association has this garenteed amount of union dues going to the association AFL/CIO.

I know I should believe everything the association tells me, but the guys I am forced to pay without any accountability to me, and has been less then honorable in their actions with me. Examples.

The forming of the association

We get a pay raise. Jim Little got a pay raise. (Sounds righteous)

We take a pay cut, Jim Little doesn’t. Now his pay is tide to how big the union is and should he paid like a CEO of a similar sized company.

And we can go on and on.

I find it weird how the association can’t come to agreement now because they say we are giving concessions, but we got the big raise with concessions. 8 year top out and AAs right to cross utilize us.

What do you think the outcome would be if they brought it, to a vote , and it was voted in. Would that be motivation enough for maintenance to get rid of the Association, or would they not care?