2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[psa8979]

The SUIT's  are now in charge of the process . Any body is blowing smoke up your ass and has a agenda if they no whats going to happen with Association,SCS, and LCC/IAM/CBA. The Members/Workers are pawns. Until there is full disclosure, transparency, facts, and truth. STATUS QUO ! IN-PASS ! POLITICS ! until then . Fish On !

 

[roabilly]

The SUIT's  are now in charge of the process . Any body is blowing smoke up your ass and has a agenda if they no whats going to happen with Association,SCS, and LCC/IAM/CBA. The Members/Workers are pawns. Until there is full disclosure, transparency, facts, and truth. STATUS QUO ! IN-PASS ! POLITICS ! until then . Fish On !

You are correct Sir...
 
I often wonder how folks like Nelson can come on here and proclaim this, and that is what WILL happen! Of course, no can prove him either wrong, or right... because nothing he predicts has actually happened yet! 
 
P.S. If I actually knew what will happen in the future, I'd be playing the future winning numbers on each Power-Ball, and buying the IPO's that I already knew would be phenomenally successful! Further, I'm sure Nelson would too...

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles... does AA currently have any Air Cargo Fleet positions protected in the current agreement?

We still have Freight in our hubs.

 

[700UW]

And what is the part time cap on fleet?
 
And you only have 17 stations correct?
 
And CSA has no cap correct?

 

[WeAAsles]

Using you're logic Weaa, then everyone is under a concessionary CBA in the industry.
 
Because no one has everything their CBA since the first one that any union and any company has negotiated and ratified.

It wasn't a lesson on logic as much as answering the question of the meaning of concessions. Concessions means to give up something does it not? So even if you get a $10 raise and to agree to that you have to close a station with only 10 people, you made a concession.

Our contracts all of them are littered even before the BK's with concessions. To get something maybe for the majority, people within the minority or not even on the clock yet had something taken from them.

 

[roabilly]

We still have Freight in our hubs.

OK... that means you guys have scope that we don't (freight)... and we have scope you guys don't (Catering)... so... at some point, more than likely in the JCBA talks... those functions will come into play.
 
Have a crystal ball?

 

[Tim Nelson]

You are correct Sir...
 
I often wonder how folks like Nelson can come on here and proclaim this, and that is what WILL happen! Of course, no can prove him either wrong, or right... because nothing he predicts has actually happened yet! 
 
P.S. If I actually knew what will happen in the future, I'd be playing the future winning numbers on each Power-Ball, and buying the IPO's that I already knew would be phenomenally successful! Further, I'm sure Nelson would too...

psa is right that nobody can say eith certainty since it all hinges on a release. Proper reasoning would have yo go by what is in a contract. But i certainly cant disprove the statements by our nc that the twu will violate its contract orthat an arbitrator eill violate, or that the association will wish away the mou.

What we can say with certainty, is that the association is not recognized by any company or the nmb and will only be so when it wins an election.

I cant stop you or nc members from saying otherwise though.

I can assure you ghat everything i have said was accurate at united and now here. Unfortunately, due to political gain, the current officers provided false information at united and now here.

Disappointing indeed.

 

[WeAAsles]

And what is the part time cap on fleet?
 
And you only have 17 stations correct?
 
And CSA has no cap correct?

You know what I see you again constantly trying to do 700 which I do not want to be a part of. You want to cause division. You want to say that you have a prettier bicycle than I do. I really don't care if your bicycle is candy apple red with rainbow tassels. Both of our bicycles have a flat tire that need air and whoever has the pump needs to learn to share it.

Nothing personal man but sell the division to someone else cause I'm not biting.

 

[WeAAsles]

OK... that means you guys have scope that we don't (freight)... and we have scope you guys don't (Catering)... so... at some point, more than likely in the JCBA talks... those function will come into play.
 
Have a crystal ball?

 
Wish I did but the one thing I will say is I wish us ALL the best.

 

[roabilly]

WeAAles I understand you argument fully...
 
If one were to look at the cost of the entire contractual pie to the Company, then I’m sure there will be some disparity when compared to the other majors, and even WN. However, don’t forget, that is exactly why the Airlines utilized BK proceedings! BK was used as a legal tool to REVERSE the trends on compensation package gains that took DECADES to achieve throughout the Industry in traditional negotiations!
 
IMO... it will take decades if not ever, to achieve the same levels of total compensation value, regarding scope, benefits, and hourly compensation.

 

[700UW]

You know what I see you again constantly trying to do 700 which I do not want to be a part of. You want to cause division. You want to say that you have a prettier bicycle than I do. I really don't care if your bicycle is candy apple red with rainbow tassels. Both of our bicycles have a flat tire that need air and whoever has the pump needs to learn to share it.

Nothing personal man but sell the division to someone else cause I'm not biting.

Nope not at all, maybe you need to talk to your coworker NYer, since he is the one who says WN's CBA is concessionary, and yet he refuses to show proof of that.
 
WN has the best CBAs for Ramp and CSA, so he is lives in a glass house.
 
And WN hasnt taken concessions at all, never laid off can you say the same about any other airline?

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAles I understand you argument fully...
 
If one were to look at the cost of the entire contractual pie to the Company, then I’m sure there will be some disparity when compared to the other majors, and even WN. However, don’t forget, that is exactly why the Airlines utilized BK proceedings! BK was used as a legal tool to REVERSE the trends on compensation package gains, that took DECADES to achieve throughout the Industry in traditional negotiations!
 
IMO... it will take decades if not ever, to achieve the same levels of total compensation value, regarding scope, benefits, and hourly compensation.

Well at least one of you can grasp the terminology of what making a concession is. Not all concessions have to do with BK though. If I accept say an increase to my base wage but to get that I have to agree that PTers will now be paying double for their medical then I made a concession. I don't see how much clearer that point can be made?

 

[WeAAsles]

Nope not at all, maybe you need to talk to your coworker NYer, since he is the one who says WN's CBA is concessionary, and yet he refuses to show proof of that.
 
WN has the best CBAs for Ramp and CSA, so he is lives in a glass house.
 
And WN hasnt taken concessions at all, never laid off can you say the same about any other airline?

I think he already did when he stated to you those articles? My guess is that those articles didn't exist when they signed their first contract but they do now. Why are they there now and what did they get in return to agree to them? You know what I call that? Concessions!

 

[roabilly]

Well at least one of you can grasp the terminology of what making a concession is. Not all concessions have to do with BK though. If I accept say an increase to my base wage but to get that I have to agree that PTers will now be paying double for their medical then I made a concession. I don't see how much clearer that point can be made?

Not to change the subject... but I think this is applicable... are you familiar with what happened between Eastern Airlines, and the IAM? If you are... I will submit that this was the turning point in the Industry regarding ever increasing contractual gains...
 
Unions have agreed to things... (no doubt)... since then, that they would NEVER have agreed to BEFORE then...

 

[WeAAsles]

Not to change the subject... but I think this is applicable... are you familiar with what happened between Eastern Airlines, and the IAM? If you are... I will submit that this was the turning point in the Industry regarding ever increasing contractual gains...

Not sure but share it if you like. Learning from the past IMO helps to guide our future.