2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[mike33]

Geez stop ridding Tim, he has every right to accept any one of these BS over paid union positions that he can get into ..

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't our baggage handler President paid 250K a year ?

Ridiculous salaries..

Wrong and if you don't think Tim is doing a dis-service to you by stacking the UA deck with his knowledge then you don't understand the concept of that. What he knows should be used for the betterment of the USairways membership since we are outnumbered 5-1. 

 

[freedom]

If that's what it takes for him to win then more power to him ...

250K is what I call FU money. ..thats when you tell anyone who has a problem with it to F off...

 

[mike33]

If that's what it takes for him to win then more power to him ...

250K is what I call FU money. ..thats when you tell anyone who has a problem with it to F off...

You are wrong re the 250.00  ( it may be 1/2 that much)  and yes that may well be what it takes if he gets in . So, you admit that you would do the same thing i guess.........

 

[freedom]

Yes I would totally do the same ..250K, come on!

 

[mike33]

Yes I would totally do the same ..250K, come on!

where do you get the 250 from.........??????  Source please!

 

[700UW]

The problem with Tim is he isnt for the membership, he is for himself, he has been on a power quest for over 20 years and never achieved it.
 
He will sell his soul to the devil for the AGC position.
 
See Freedumb, you werent around to see the damage timmie has done, in 92 he was responsible for the bloodbath that happened to fleet as he filed short on cards so the ramp couldnt unionize.
 

 
Tim on the TWU:
Tim Nelson
Mar 14 2005, 11:58 AM

Post on the former AGW site

http://64.233.187.10...W..."twu"&hl=en

Dear American Airline FSC;
I am often asked what is the difference between Labor Representatives, i.e., the AGW and the TWU. Or to put it another way, why should someone consider switching from the TWU to the AGW.
 
First off, the primary reason to have a Union is to negotiate and secure a Collective Bargaining Agreement [CBA]. As I have talked to several American Airline FSC’s I have realized the cruddy, undemocratic, yet calculated job the TWU has done in representing you. In fact, I would categorize it as the TWU representing the company to you instead of you to the company. At any rate, I am not going to insult you and tell you what you already know about the TWU.
 
What I can tell you is what the AGW Constitution allows under the exact same circumstances. In any AGW negotiations, YOU negotiate your contract because your Negotiations team, including its chairman is from your airline and department [far different from the TWU]. Further, the Negotiations team can’t even enter into negotiations unless and until the majority of workers prioritize contract proposals. For instance, if American wants further concessions from you and you had the AGW, then any elected AGW Negotiations team can’t even enter concessionary negotiations unless the majority of workers approve and prioritize contract proposals. Remember, your Labor Representative represents you, is your advocate, and shouldn’t be in concessionary talks with your company if the members didn’t authorize them!
 
Does this mean anything to you?
 
At any rate, negotiations are the ‘sacred’ for the workers so all AGW negotiations are fully disclosed to the members it represents. Each company proposal and AGW counter proposal from your Negotiations team must be on display on the AGW website for full disclosure! Further, the AGW, by Constitution, can’t sign confidentiality papers with a company because it does not allow secret, ‘cant tell ya’ negotiations. Confidentiality agreements always protect the company and always keep information from the rank and file. Further, no AGW officer has the power or authority to sign a letter of agreement without being authorized by the majority of workers.
 
As a side, the highest salary for an AGW officer is $61,000; Officer elections have minimal restrictions to promote greater participation; The AGW will service you with the same resources you give the TWU…your dues; And the AGW has retained a Nationally recognized law firm to represent you in arbitration cases and for other professional matters.
It’s all in the AGW constitution and I encourage you to read it. In closing, you can’t afford to keep the TWU along with its undemocratic systems. The quicker you sign your AGW card then the quicker we can replace the TWU!
 
Onward!
 
Tim Nelson, Interim Director, Allied Ground Workers


Tim states that:
“In any AGW negotiations, YOU negotiate your contract because your Negotiations team, including its chairman is from your airline and department [far different from the TWU].â€

Fact: The AGW NEVER negotiated…anything!!!!




Now the President of TWU Local 512 – President Report:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
 
At the risk of breathing new life into what should be a dead issue, I would like to use this month’s President’s Message to express my thoughts on the group that calls itself the Allied Ground Workers. I am aware that some of our Local 512 members have been distributing literature about this organization and have solicited others to sign cards authorizing the AGW as the collective bargaining agent for fleet service. Some of you who are reading this may have signed one of these authorization cards. Members who were approached by these AGW supporters told me that they thought they were signing a petition the purpose of which was to show their displeasure with the TWU. In case it was not fully explained to you at the time, let me assure you there is more at play here than just sending a message to your TWU leadership.
 
This is what could happen.
 
As stated above, these cards indicate that the signatory authorizes the Allied Ground Workers to be the sole collective bargaining agent for fleet service employees at American Airlines. In the event that AGW were to obtain signatures from a majority of the bargaining unit system wide, they could petition the National Mediation Board for a representational election. There are three possible outcomes of such an election. If the TWU gets the majority of votes cast, the TWU would win. If the AGW gets the majority, it would win. Both of these outcomes are predicated on at least 50% plus one members of the bargaining unit casting votes for one or the other representative. The third possible outcome would occur if less than half the bargaining unit were to cast votes. If that were to happen we would have no union.
OK. That last scenario is too sickening to even contemplate so we’ll leave it be for now.
 
Let’s talk about the Allied Ground Workers. Who are they? Whom do they represent? What are their credentials and experience? If you visit the AGW website, you will find that their "Interim Director" is Tim Nelson and their "Interim President" is Mike Pruitt. Who are they and who elected them to their positions within the organization? The website does contain a brief "bio" on Nelson (nothing on Pruitt) that raises more questions than it answers. It appears Tim Nelson is very good at making sweeping general statements but is very stingy with supporting facts. With this in mind, one of our Local 512 representatives wrote Mr. Nelson an email respectfully asking him to clarify some of the things he states in his biography. While I give him credit for a prompt response, Nelson failed to answer any of the direct questions posed by our rep. He was, however, quick to take offense when the irony of his characterization of another Union’s system of governance as a "one man band" was pointed out to him. I am starting to suspect that Mr. Nelson is what our brothers and sisters at Local 513 might call "All hat and no cattle".
 
So what do we know about Tim Nelson, Mike Pruitt and the AGW? Nelson apparently works for US Airways (which just emerged from bankruptcy) though he states this nowhere in his biography and does not answer this question in the email although he was asked this directly. Nor does he answer the question of what work he does for the airline. He does not respond to a question if he was elected to his position or if he is self-appointed. He does not answer the questions of how and when the AGW was founded or whom the AGW represents. (Note: I do not believe the AGW is the bargaining agent for anyone and has never negotiated a contract.) He seems prone to making self-aggrandizing, vaguely messianic statements such as "…having Justice as a core basis of my faith and doing my best to serve it by God’s grace alone…" and "…the courtroom is empty and I am free to serve Justice."
And what do we know about "President" Mike Pruitt. Zip.
 
The targets of the AGW’s organizing drives are the ramp service employees from US Airways, United Airlines and American Airlines. All of these employees have suffered through painful restructuring either in bankruptcy, in the cases of US Airways and United, or under the threat of bankruptcy in the case of American. All of these employees are currently represented by either the IAM or the TWU. Apparently, the AGW is not interested in organizing employees who have no Union representation. The TWU is currently engaged in an organizing effort at Continental Airlines and spent years working to organize Delta’s ramp employees. The TWU has led successful drives to organize Southwest’s flight attendants and clerks and America West’s clerks. All of these employees lacked Union representation when the TWU began their drives.
 
The AGW, by contrast, are nothing but a bunch of Union-busting predators. Don’t think so? Then why is one of the AGW’s biggest proponents in ORD supplying a link to the National Right to Work Foundation, an organization whose sole purpose it is to undermine organized labor, on the AGW forum website?
 
If there were to be a representation election and the Allied Ground Workers win, then what would happen? First of all, the contract would remain in force. A new Local would be formed and new officers elected. The AGW Constitution allows for members from more than one employer to makeup a Local so you could be in the same Local as US Airways and United employees. We could end up being led by officers who work at a different airline. An "employer specific" Local could be formed at the discretion of the National Executive Board. (I thought the AGW was supposed to have a "bottom-up" system of governance.) The TWU Local 512 treasury would revert to the TWU International and the new AGW Local would start out with zero dollars. (Under the AGW Constitution, 40% of dues money goes to the International and 60% stays with the Local. The split of initiation fees is 50-50. In the TWU, 70% of dues and 100% of initiation fees remains in the Local.) The new Local and International AGW would be subject to the same federal laws that govern the TWU and all Labor Unions in the airline industry, chiefly the Railway Labor Act (RLA) and the Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act (LMRDA).
 
As an officer of Local 512 I am bound by an oath to "…bear true and faithful allegiance to the International and Local Union…" and my Union is the TWU. I take that oath seriously and I do my best to live up to it. The TWU has been the …"exclusive and sole collective bargaining agency…" for fleet service at American since 1946 [TWU/AA Agreement, Article 1(a)]. No organization is perfect, just as no leader is perfect. Just as I am not blind to the internal problems of this organization, I am aware of the external forces that have plagued the industry, particularly the "legacy" carriers such as American, and have created downward pressures on industry wages and benefits. Those pressures are not only economic but political as well. The TWU has weathered many a storm in its half-century of representing employees in the industry. We have been through strikes, airline deregulation, Crandall, the demise of Eastern and Pan Am, 9/11 …but we have survived and we have prospered.
 
There is no question that this past year has been a horrible one for our members. There is no denying it. The TWU membership made the tough decisions necessary to keep the Company solvent and it appears that American is no longer at risk of filing for bankruptcy. Compare our situation with United, still in bankruptcy, and US Airways, just emerged from bankruptcy. Both of those airlines are asking their employees for further concessions with the threat of seeking relief from a bankruptcy judge if they fail to agree. Both United and US Airways have cut back considerably more of their operations and their workforces than American. American is poised to make a profit this year and the sooner it does so the sooner we will start to recover what we lost in the restructuring agreements. Money-losing companies do not agree to wage and benefit increases in negotiations.
 
Fraternally,

Glenn Harmon
President
TWU Local 512
 

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why do you say I'm attacking your personally. Because I point out how your screwing the US members?? The only people that should take anything personal are all the US members that read this site and find outf what your doing to them. If that bothers you? The good!! It should!! But you will sale out anybody to get your position. And Tim, I've knew you too long to jump on your little bait about scope. Of course you can pledge anything to the membership you want. It's easy to be a backseat driver. You seam to claim a know all about negotiations. You want the members to see proposals. Why don't you just make yourself look good and tell them everything. Hell I would kinda like to here myself. Now I do have a wife that I'm going to celebrate Mothers Day with her. Talk to ya later. Happy Mothers Day to everyone's wives and moms out there.

you just proved my point. Please stop talking personal.
Why did you guys table scope?

Im not trying to make myself look good, im just speaking the truth and can say 100% no way in hell i recommend an acception on any ta that just keeps the present scope. The fact that you cant say that is very telling but proves my point.

 

[mike33]

you just proved my point. Please stop talking personal.
Why did you guys table scope?

Im not trying to make myself look good, im just speaking the truth and can say 100% no way in hell i recommend an acception on any ta that just keeps the present scope. The fact that you cant say that is very telling but proves my point.

Tim
 If you know they tabled scope, was there no change to it when tabled?
 
 I think that you just " Elude " to the tabling as 0 gain but won't say what you know. I can understand why the NC can't say anything because they are at the table, but you are not so why not tell us what you know as fact!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
 If you know they tabled scope, was there no change to it when tabled?
 
 I think that you just " Elude " to the tabling as 0 gain but won't say what you know. 

No change for non hubs. Your station will not be grandfathered at all. Period. It's tabled.  The mediator saw that as positive movement on the union part.  The best you can now hope for with these guys is to get your station a new Cinderella date.
 
If they don't blow things up before June,  and IF I get elected, no way in HELL would I, as an AGC elect, support anything other than rejecting a TA that doesn't enhance the scope.  Again, not talking bull #### drop dead dates. Now is the time to take care of this once and for all, but THEY DIDN"T.  They have instead shifted to some no furlough clause which the company is receptive on, PROVIDED, that you don't mind moving 3,000 miles and have someone else do your home job.
 
I know you are voting against me, so just isten to me now, believe me later.  I will PROVE myself and what I say to you, as I did with United. I have no problem gaining your respect afterwards, should I win.  I'm in this for the long haul and we also need to secure a solid joint contract that really is industry leading in all ways, even retirement options.   
 
At any rate, get ready for the side show explaining to you that they will work out scope in the joint talks and how when you add up all the flights at AMR and USAIRWAYS together that your station will meet the new joint contract thresholds. Sorry, but that is a big assumption and one that we don't need to assume if scope is taken care of NOW.   Hopefully, no dopey TA is presented this month and I can get in there because otherwise there is nothing but another dopey bankrupt contract that we will be stuck with.    The TWU members were hopeful that we would address scope and wages.   You can check off scope, presently, and up for consideration is less wages than AMR.   Ask yourself, why accept less than AMR's bankrupt wages when the company is making Billions and all other large airlines offer compensation over $24 CURRENTLY?  I can think of only one reason that folks would think less than AMR wages is fair and that would only be if scope was broadened to bring in the all current work.  The TWU did it at Southwest in their last contract when they grandfathered all work at each station in existence prior to 2009, so should we and I thought that this was what our NC was suppose to be doing.  SMH

 

[mike33]

So Tim Nelson is guaranteeing no change in scope when we see a TA. Ok Got it ! I'll archive that.

 

[Tim Nelson]

So Tim Nelson is guaranteeing no change in scope when we see a TA. Ok Got it ! I'll archive that.

Unfortunately, the non hubs were left out again with the movement from the union last week [Again, not talking Cinderella dates].  It would be nice for a TA to come out where our members can not only see but also vote accordingly. Once things are out, I don't think many US AIRWAYS folks will be voting for the peeps you endorse. What would also be nice is if Team Delaney tackled scope head on instead of doing cindy dates and the always misleading no furlough clause that company's love to draft since it means absolutely NOTHING if you aren't willing to be contracted out AND uproot across the nation.

 

[mike33]

Yes I would totally do the same ..250K, come on!

....  Source ....???????

 

[mike33]

where do you get the 250 from.........??????  Source please!

 Again freedom....Source of your info.

 

[mike33]

Unfortunately, the non hubs were left out again with the movement from the union last week [Again, not talking Cinderella dates].  It would be nice for a TA to come out where our members can not only see but also vote accordingly. Once things are out, I don't think many US AIRWAYS folks will be voting for the peeps you endorse. What would also be nice is if Team Delaney tackled scope head on instead of doing cindy dates and the always misleading no furlough clause that company's love to draft since it means absolutely NOTHING if you aren't willing to be contracted out AND uproot across the nation.

  A little cover for your statement?     Even if so called cinderella dates would be 2017 +?..........  knowing that a TA may come before that?  I don't know as much a you know ( somehow ) but that type of length could be negotiated away in a TA?

 

[freedom]

I have no idea mike, that's what I've heard our president makes ..