2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[ograc]

i havent made any judgements yet and i really have no idea what you are talking about. Cripes, I have actually made positive comments as well about some things on the highlight sheet. There is nothing wrong with speculating things from the highlight sheet otherwise why put it out?

There is indeed something wrong with one's speculation on a highlight sheet. Especially, when one posts the said personal speculation and interpretation on a public forum such as this. It tends to lead members with personal interpretation based on what could end up being meritless insinuations. It tends to cloud the water so to speak. I know you are running for the opposition slate and we are in the middle of elections. I would think you would wait until the entire agreement and details are released before rushing to judgement. I would think, as an opposition candidate, you would wait for all questions to be answered before rendering a position on this TA. Of course; as a politician; I realize you must oppose quickly. There are only two weeks left of voting in June. Given this; your criticism of the TA was anticipated and duly noted. This is about what's best for the membership. It's not about what's best for opposition candidates. If you agree; I'm confident you would wait for all the details to come to light. For all questions to be answered in an effort to promote further clarification. Until then; everyone should remain open minded. 

 

[PHXConx]

im not understanding your anger and im really not sure if you are being serious because i have no idea what you are talking about. Nobody is putting anything out as facts now.

i dont know how you read anger in any of my posts?  i cant help how you read my words in your head.
 
But you have the exact same highlight sheet the rest of us, you have implied extra wording, you posted one post by saying "problem i heard" oh really? from who? from what?  you are doing more than speculating you are spreading unfounded rumors saying you have heard something... well im sorry real facts talk and bull sh*t walks show us your evidence of what you heard tell us who you heard it form or its just a load of crap.
 
noone not you or anyone else should  write speculation as fact, write spread rumors without at least a verifiable source go by as fact, people take what you say as fact because you are running for leadership they take your word especially if they voted for you or think about voting for you, as gospel.  but its not, its the same thing we all have, and until we  have actual language perhaps we all especially those in self appointed leadership positions and those running for office should refrain from making hay out of a big pile of dirt.  
 
your words have weight, and they should be backed up with something more than past "sins" of leadership, and reading between the lines of a highlight sheet.  anything else is irresponsible and a disservice to the membership you  say you want to serve. you serve the membership by giving them the best most honest reality of whats going on not speculation from a one page highlight sheet.  

 

[Tim Nelson]

i dont know how you read anger in any of my posts?  i cant help how you read my words in your head.
 
But you have the exact same highlight sheet the rest of us, you have implied extra wording, you posted one post by saying "problem i heard" oh really? from who? from what?  you are doing more than speculating you are spreading unfounded rumors saying you have heard something... well im sorry real facts talk and bull sh*t walks show us your evidence of what you heard tell us who you heard it form or its just a load of crap.
 
noone not you or anyone else should  write speculation as fact, write spread rumors without at least a verifiable source go by as fact, people take what you say as fact because you are running for leadership they take your word especially if they voted for you or think about voting for you, as gospel.  but its not, its the same thing we all have, and until we  have actual language perhaps we all especially those in self appointed leadership positions and those running for office should refrain from making hay out of a big pile of dirt.  
 
your words have weight, and they should be backed up with something more than past "sins" of leadership, and reading between the lines of a highlight sheet.  anything else is irresponsible and a disservice to the membership you  say you want to serve. you serve the membership by giving them the best most honest reality of whats going on not speculation from a one page highlight sheet.

Again, you jump to conclusions.
Basing things strictly off a highlight sheet, it is reasonable to suggest that something is at play with scope that wasnt previously known, ie, cross utilization.
That is a huge thing if it opens up our work to others and since it was significant enough to put it on a highlight sheet then its significant enough to discuss openly. Im uncomfortable with the highlight sheet as it relates to scope. Maybe false concerns. If they kept all stations that have one flight a day and didnt subject it to something then id say this is a fair agreement. Scope is everything.

 

[rockit2]

The highlight sheet looks decent but there has to be some poison in there somewhere. True, we wont know till the full t/a comes out for disection. I wish it would come out soon, we had some screaming matches going on and it makes for a bad atmosphere at work. It seems to good to be true. After talking to a source at one of our hubs, the junior guy's are ready to vote yes. That's what scares me. Looking at the money but not other things that really matter.
 
 The Rockit

 

[Tim Nelson]

The highlight sheet looks decent but there has to be some poison in there somewhere. True, we wont know till the full t/a comes out for disection. I wish it would come out soon, we had some screaming matches going on and it makes for a bad atmosphere at work. It seems to good to be true. After talking to a source at one of our hubs, the junior guy's are ready to vote yes. That's what scares me. Looking at the money but not other things that really matter.
 
 The Rockit

if the language matches the highlight sheet and there are no penalties then id think we should all vote for it. Why not? And give the nc points.

 

[PHXConx]

Again, you jump to conclusions.
Basing things strictly off a highlight sheet, it is reasonable to suggest that something is at play with scope that wasnt previously known, ie, cross utilization.
That is a huge thing if it opens up our work to others and since it was significant enough to put it on a highlight sheet then its significant enough to discuss openly. Im uncomfortable with the highlight sheet as it relates to scope. Maybe false concerns. If they kept all stations that have one flight a day and didnt subject it to something then id say this is a fair agreement. Scope is everything.

 
im not jumping to conclusions im watching you do it
 
you jumped to conclusions, baseless conclusions about the utilization not only did you jump to conclusions about it you got the wording WRONG! so anyone reading your assumptions and not the highlight list will expect you at least got the wording of it right... boy would they be wrong
 
great you are uncomfortable, im uncomfortable about the whole thing till i read it, just because im uncomfortable im not going to give a bunch of it "could be this", "or thats" or "whatnots" just because i read an additional few words. in between lines of a table of contents... thats like trying to explain a book by reading the cliff notes...
 
the TA language will be out in a day or so would it kill you to hold off on speculation on what a few words on the highlight sheet may or may not mean, until the language is out?
 
people reading this see you going off on things not on the sheet, they think that you have seen more, you havent, and ill stay on you till the language comes out and we can have an honest and forthcoming evaluation of the full language, not words used on a highlight sheet that may or may not be in the final language of the TA.
 
All I and from what i have read from many other posters ask is you hold off on the speculation and we discuss things we know, which really isnt that much. until the TA language is out in full.  
 
Noone cares what it could be, and those coming here late seeing you read what could be without the benefit of the entire conversation are being duped by you into thinking thats what the contract says, not your speculation on what it might say because words on the Highlight sheet. do them the favor and serve them by not getting into speculation until more is known.  the membership deserves that from you.

 

[rockit2]

you want to be in a leadership position, you want people to vote for you, if they did, and yiou were in charge, how would you feel if some one else did the exact same thing you are speculating, adding language to the highlight sheet and assuming things are on the contract that may or may not be on it?
 
with no real evidence. id like people i vote for to lead by example...  not bloviate endlessly because for some reason they think it makes others think that the louder you are the more you denigrate others efforts that means you are a better leader?  but then again bullies think they are leaders too..  
 
It reminds me of that junior officer just got his bars, he is "salty"  hes out there barking orders, putting down sergeants because how does that non com know more than him... (hes got a ring) then when they are out on patrol and hes crapping his pants.. and the non com saves his ass... 
 
sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. 
 
there is a problem with speculating and putting it out there as fact, you have made several comments today that you "heard"  heard from who?  how do we know what that is, i heard alot of things earlier today i have since learned isnt true, did i go out and blab i heard this?  no! do you  know why? because i have no idea its true.. just like you.. you want to lead us?  then act like a leader.  

For a PHX guy your pretty ballsy, I thought PHX was a field full of sheep and I have some friend that work there!

 

[PHXConx]

After talking to a source at one of our hubs, the junior guy's are ready to vote yes. That's what scares me. Looking at the money but not other things that really matter.
 
 The Rockit

oh yea what source?  which guy? what hub?  what do you define as junior?
 
unfounded speculation based on "i heard a  guy who is related to my barber, who found out while playing bridge from the guy across town, who heard it from the cop while being pulled over for speeding, who got it from his sister, who is married to my barber..." crap does nothing it implies you have a leg up but noone knows from what... or how, that the only real answer to the question is im worried about this, but until i see the language i like this... or hate that...  
 
i agree with the being worried, but speculating past what we know is dangerous, it doesnt help anyone, and it in the long run hurts far more than it helps.  

 

[PHXConx]

For a PHX guy your pretty ballsy, I thought PHX was a field full of sheep and I have some friend that work there!

 i ll take that as a compliment i think lol 
 
there are sheep here there are everywhere... most people come here to retire... but the rest of us that are here for a while have a vested interest in what goes on 
 
im worried people will see the money and run with it, here especially, but ill reserve judgment on it as a whole till i see the full language..  there are things i like, and some things that are worrisome.. hopefully its unfounded worry, but we will see in a day or two

 

[Tim Nelson]

 
im not jumping to conclusions im watching you do it
 
you jumped to conclusions, baseless conclusions about the utilization not only did you jump to conclusions about it you got the wording WRONG! so anyone reading your assumptions and not the highlight list will expect you at least got the wording of it right... boy would they be wrong
 
great you are uncomfortable, im uncomfortable about the whole thing till i read it, just because im uncomfortable im not going to give a bunch of it "could be this", "or thats" or "whatnots" just because i read an additional few words. in between lines of a table of contents... thats like trying to explain a book by reading the cliff notes...
 
the TA language will be out in a day or so would it kill you to hold off on speculation on what a few words on the highlight sheet may or may not mean, until the language is out?
 
people reading this see you going off on things not on the sheet, they think that you have seen more, you havent, and ill stay on you till the language comes out and we can have an honest and forthcoming evaluation of the full language, not words used on a highlight sheet that may or may not be in the final language of the TA.
 
All I and from what i have read from many other posters ask is you hold off on the speculation and we discuss things we know, which really isnt that much. until the TA language is out in full.  
 
Noone cares what it could be, and those coming here late seeing you read what could be without the benefit of the entire conversation are being duped by you into thinking thats what the contract says, not your speculation on what it might say because words on the Highlight sheet. do them the favor and serve them by not getting into speculation until more is known.  the membership deserves that from you.

geez, settle down. Cripes, its just a highlight sheet.

 

[WeAAsles]

"The TA language will be out in a day or so would it kill you to hold off on speculation on what a few words on the highlight sheet may or may not mean, until the language is out?"

Words that ALL should live by. Take a few breathers.
 

 

[Tim Nelson]

"The TA language will be out in a day or so would it kill you to hold off on speculation on what a few words on the highlight sheet may or may not mean, until the language is out?"Words that ALL should live by. Take a few breathers.

your assumptions are incorrect sir.
it will not be out in a day or so. They will try to sell the membership on it long before it comes out.

Something is wrong when the 5th bullet point on a highlight sheet is already talking about securing bereavement leave for a step child.

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim C'mon man breath. Reeellllaaaaxxxxx. Sleep sleep. Drift into the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrx1vyvtRLY

 

[PHXConx]

your assumptions are incorrect sir.
it will not be out in a day or so. They will try to sell the membership on it long before it comes out.
 

 
 
well we will see how well your cognitive abilities are..  you have no earthly idea when its going out but you will make youre own assumptions make the membership AGAIN think you have an idea for what?  a few political points you might glean from saying its going to take a long time? My assumptions are assumptions, i make no pretense to know i believe it will be rather soon, its in everyones best interest to do it sooner rather than later... but i dont know when it will come out, you on the other hand say it will take a long time to sell it...  based on what again?  oh yea nothing...  
 
you have no earthly idea when the TA will be out but you cant help but try to act like you do... again whats those lottery numbers going to be?

 

[Tim Nelson]

I think that 5th bullet point for bereavement leave of a step child is gonna seal the deal for ratification!

Funny thing is that mx seem to be pretty pissed with only getting a 3% wage increase and no signing bonus. And fleet presumably got 13% and a bonus. I can hear the amfa voices now.