2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[roabilly]

Not sure but share it if you like. Learning from the past IMO helps to guide our future.

I don't have time now, but it's real easy to research...
 
Everyone that knows anything about Airline Labor, and Collective Bargaining should research it fully! 
 
Start HERE
 
Very good information HERE

 

[T5towbar]

That would be a very tough sell to the Membership in terms of the ratification of any Section 6 Agreement. For instance, Catering Fleet Service in CLT alone is roughly 20% of the hub workforce! In addition, it is high sonority, so getting the other 80% to accept it would mean selling them on losing 20% of their own Ramp Workforce, since they would be bumped down, and possibly out by displaced Catering Members.
 
In terms of cost savings to the Company, there is little to none to use vendors...
 
So... it’s NOT something I would bank on!

I know Roabilly.
But I heard the same thing before and after the representation election that Cargo wasn't going anywhere because it was making money (on the sCO side). I could see your point if AA had a similar service. But trust me, it will come up in joint negotiations. That's when you start hearing the "harmonization". We were lucky to save our Move Team, even though it is not in every hub, just the sCO hubs. They fought like hell to keep it since it was a small thing, and maybe in your situation it will be kept. As long as you all fight for it!

 

[roabilly]

I know Roabilly.
But I heard the same thing before and after the representation election that Cargo wasn't going anywhere because it was making money (on the sCO side). I could see your point if AA had a similar service. But trust me, it will come up in joint negotiations. That's when you start hearing the "harmonization". We were lucky to save our Move Team, even though it is not in every hub, just the sCO hubs. They fought like hell to keep it since it was a small thing, and maybe in your situation it will be kept. As long as you all fight for it!

Ohhh... don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it WONT happen, but...  as I discussed with WeAAsles... AA has A/F and US has CAT... either way... losing one, and gaining another would be cost neutral to the Company!
 
Where is that damned crystal ball...

 

[NYer]

You are the master of avoidance.
 
For the fifth time, explain to the board how the most compensated workers in the industry are working under a concessionary contract.
 
You stated it, so now back it up, showing a part time cap and no family insurance doesnt make the CBA concessionary.
 
So are you going to man up and cost it out and show the whole board how it is concessionary?
 
Or shall I call my good friend at WN who was the President of the IAM PHX lodge who is a WN employee to inform you of how valuable their non-concessionary CBA is?

 
Then what makes a contract concessionary, in your opinion?

 

[NYer]

Using you're logic Weaa, then everyone is under a concessionary CBA in the industry.
 
Because no one has everything their CBA since the first one that any union and any company has negotiated and ratified.

 
And that has been a downward spiral since deregulation. Most CBA's have gained in some areas, while eliminating others. Other CBA's have kept certain enhancements away in exchange for financial gains. Concessions has been the reality in the airline industry since deregulation.

 

[700UW]

 
Then what makes a contract concessionary, in your opinion?

When a concessionary contract is negotiated the company costs go down.
 
At WN there was never concessionary bargaining and the cost of the CBA went up.
 
In 2003 you at AA entered into concessionary bargaining, not Section 6.
 
So still waiting for you to show us how their CBA is concessionary?

 

[NYer]

Nope not at all, maybe you need to talk to your coworker NYer, since he is the one who says WN's CBA is concessionary, and yet he refuses to show proof of that.
 
WN has the best CBAs for Ramp and CSA, so he is lives in a glass house.
 
And WN hasnt taken concessions at all, never laid off can you say the same about any other airline?

 
So that would mean that you would take the SWA CBA right now. If you could get that then you would be satisfied?

 

[700UW]

You would have to ask the current US employees.
 
But the Ramp and CSA and Res at WN have better CBAs than any other unionized carrier and non-union.
 
Still waiting for you to show us how their contract is concessionary and reduced the costs for WN and not increased them.
 
But you wont answer as you havent for over a day now and you cant.

 

[700UW]

Compare this to your TWU/AA CBA or the IAM/US CBA for fleet.
 
http://twu555.org/portals/12/PDFfiles/2008-201120CBA.pdf
 
And by the way the TWU negotiated WN CBA for fleet also has a 20% cap on Part-time, and the same no coverage for family medical, yet you criticize the IAM for that, yet the TWU has the same language.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ohhh... don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it WONT happen, but...  as I discussed with WeAAsles... AA has A/F and US has CAT... either way... losing one, and gaining another would be cost neutral to the Company!
 
Where is that damned crystal ball...

lets just say it wont happen unless the union leaders agree to it. Toss in tower and clp on usair side , and all lav work on sAA side into your argument.

 

[P. REZ]

psa is right that nobody can say eith certainty since it all hinges on a release. Proper reasoning would have yo go by what is in a contract. But i certainly cant disprove the statements by our nc that the twu will violate its contract orthat an arbitrator eill violate, or that the association will wish away the mou.

What we can say with certainty, is that the association is not recognized by any company or the nmb and will only be so when it wins an election.

I cant stop you or nc members from saying otherwise though.

I can assure you ghat everything i have said was accurate at united and now here. Unfortunately, due to political gain, the current officers provided false information at united and now here.

Disappointing indeed.

Tim,
 
What are you claiming I am saying that is false in your mind? I guess if you keep saying something then it is true?
 
P. Rez

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim,
 
What are you claiming I am saying that is false in your mind? I guess if you keep saying something then it is true?
 
P. Rez

It's a tactic to attempt to get the readers to mistrust you. Nothing more than a simple strategy to further his agendas.

No one so far here seems to be buying into it though. He'll now try to twist it to suits his needs. Watch.

 

[NYer]

Compare this to your TWU/AA CBA or the IAM/US CBA for fleet.
 
http://twu555.org/portals/12/PDFfiles/2008-201120CBA.pdf
 
And by the way the TWU negotiated WN CBA for fleet also has a 20% cap on Part-time, and the same no coverage for family medical, yet you criticize the IAM for that, yet the TWU has the same language.

To you. pointing something out is criticism? You seem a bit dislodged and somehow interpreting things on your own.

Please show us the comment you interpret as criticism.

 

[700UW]

Still waiting for you to show us how their Section 6 CBA is concessionary.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
What are you claiming I am saying that is false in your mind? I guess if you keep saying something then it is true?
 
P. Rez

prez, is the association recognized by the nmb and/or certified as a collective bargaining agent by the nmb for any AA/Us employees? Yes or No

To the audience, it is 100% guaranteed that the nmb doesnt recognize the association and wont recognize it until it wins an election. Prez has refused to answer the question.