2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[mike33]

Mike
You are correct, the company has always looked at the total compensation package. This is what is the big slap in the face to is all. Except for pay, everything else AA has, is a bankrupt contract. Why this company thinks when we are making record profits that they should be comparing out total compensation package, to a bankrupt package is just crazy. But that's what they keep trying to get away with. Every part of our contract should be better than AA,s bankrupt agreement.

  Saw the PHX meeting from last week today. Kudos to the MTC negotiator to call Parker out about the Negotiations. I'm sure that it took him a little by surprise when the guy said, "It Ain't gonna happen Brother " ( to Parker )

 

[737823]

so you feel you gotta post the same way he does...   just the same way you have to post  to agitate 700 etc   man talk about needing help

I just don't understand why BLUTO posts like that when before he posted legitimate things. Im not out to agitate 700, he choses to reply to my posts, I ask reasonable questions. Don't like it don't read it as he says.

Josh

 

[ograc]

Cargo,
 
Your observation is probably 100% correct. Of course, the Company will always attempt to get the best deal possible for themselves. After all, they are a business, and Contract Negations are just another segment of the entire business model.
 
Herein, lays the dilemma for both Fleet, and the Company... if the Company wishes to move forward with creating a harmonized combined entity, that maximizes synergies, they will NEED Labor Agreements! Now, CB, Prez, and all the others have all said that the current proposal is insufficient, and it is yet another BK agreement in value.
 
OK... having said all of that, what happens next? Does the company insist on attempting to impose another BK agreement on PMUS? Or... do they realize that at some point they will have to bargain agreements that exceed the BK years? Or... do they go ahead with several more years of Labor friction, and a possible strike involving two of the biggest, and most vital Unions Groups? I guess we will see in very short order...
 
I look at this way, sooner or later, even with all of the bureaucracy, arduous scheduling, and arcane legal hoops that the RLA, and the NMB impose on everyone to jump through... there will be a FINAL resolution! The question is... does this final resolution come sooner or later? Will it come before Transition Talks, thus setting the bar for the AA side to seek parity with our Section Six achievements? Will it come after a strike, or a release? Will it come in a few weeks... a few years? Either way, the Company has to eventually offer contracts that reflect current Industry performance, and profits!
 
The Company will have to make a business decision real soon. Postponing the inevitable may prove to be more costly to them than moving forward... it’s that simple!

Well put Roa. Time is running out for the company, the union and the NMB. If the company truly wants a smooth and seamless merger; they need to resolve unfinished business. Specifically, ammendable IAM contracts with Fleet and MTC, and Related on the US side. Contract negotiations that are currently under Section 6 of the RLA and have been for over 2 years now. IMO... Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiations cannot start until the unfinished business is resolved. The company will have to "choose thy fate" soon. A seamless and smooth merger or one that is subject to union resistance and future labor unrest. The choice is theirs. The New American Officers will soon  "Choose thy fate."
Lock and Load!

 

[roabilly]

Well put Roa. Time is running out for the company, the union and the NMB. If the company truly wants a smooth and seamless merger; they need to resolve unfinished business. Specifically, ammendable IAM contracts with Fleet and MTC, and Related on the US side. Contract negotiations that are currently under Section 6 of the RLA and have been for over 2 years now. IMO... Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiations cannot start until the unfinished business is resolved. The company will have to "choose thy fate" soon. A seamless and smooth merger or one that is subject to union resistance and future labor unrest. The choice is theirs. The New American Officers will soon  "Choose thy fate."
Lock and Load!

Cargo,
 
We are within a week of seeing if the Company is serious about running the largest Airline, or attempting to jerk the chains of both Fleet and MTC! 
 
The question remains... if they attempt to offer a substandard proposal, thus wasting everyone's time -- Will it ultimately cost them too much in valuable chronology and lost revenues by obstructing the profit goals of the combined entity?

 

[Solidarity]

Dunno.
 
But considering 2014, I think a sUS would much rather make the $23, have the extra week of vacation, full sick pay, holiday premium pay, and a 5.5% 401k on all earnings, over what the current sUS ramper gets hosed on. Anyone saying that sUS is ahead of sAA is smoking and needs to put the bong down.  sUS contract BLOWS BIGTIME and is the worst in the industry, worse than sAA.  Bottom line.  It's completely shameful that management doesn't advance our sUS members, but until then, hold back the merger as best we can. Most folks feel so much disrespect and insult that they don't even care what logo is on the plane anyways.

Tim,
 
If you look at some of the sticking points they need to be dissected a little further:
 
1. $23 hourly top out -- at what cost.  From what I have heard the NC will not negotiate with themselves in this area of the talks.  Needs to be at least equal.  What is to say that they didn't start out asking for more.  I don't know, maybe you do
 
2. Premium Holiday Pay -- do you realize that if AA fleet does not work the day of the holiday they do not get holiday pay at all. For instance....if you bid S/M or M/T off for the entire year or are forced to take M/T due to lack of seniority and, lets say,  XMAS, New Years, and two other holidays fall on Monday plus Thanksgiving (always Thursday) you could actually get paid for 1 of 5 Premium Holidays.  Bad Deal that AA was FORCED to accept.  I repeat......FORCED to accept.
 
3. Pension vs. 401k match -- a combo of both would be best but it costs the company about the same if a top-out pay AA FSA contributes the max to force the company's financial hand.  Also,  there are survivor benefits associated with the Pension.  When the funds run out of the 401k you are done.
 
4.  Vacation - 5th week after 25 years of service.  From the Jan 2014 Seniority Roster there are FT 1799/4487 = 40% and
     PT 133/1688 = 7.9% that would be eligible for 5 weeks vacation beginning next year.  Combined that is 1932/6175 = 31.2% that would be eligible.  I believe that is going to happen....it is just a matter of when.
 
5.  100% Sick Time Pay -- see last sentence of #4
 
6.  Scope -- The NC was able to secure protections for cities that would have be closed for Fleet.  Also, having 35 airports where US is staffed will help both work groups get back to cities from which they were displaced.
 
All in all I think that you need to see the bigger picture and commend the NC for sticking to their guns when dealing with the company.

 

[roabilly]

Tim,
 
If you look at some of the sticking points they need to be dissected a little further:
 
1. $23 hourly top out -- at what cost.  From what I have heard the NC will not negotiate with themselves in this area of the talks.  Needs to be at least equal.  What is to say that they didn't start out asking for more.  I don't know, maybe you do
 
2. Premium Holiday Pay -- do you realize that if AA fleet does not work the day of the holiday they do not get holiday pay at all. For instance....if you bid S/M or M/T off for the entire year or are forced to take M/T due to lack of seniority and, lets say,  XMAS, New Years, and two other holidays fall on Monday plus Thanksgiving (always Thursday) you could actually get paid for 1 of 5 Premium Holidays.  Bad Deal that AA was FORCED to accept.  I repeat......FORCED to accept.
 
3. Pension vs. 401k match -- a combo of both would be best but it costs the company about the same if a top-out pay AA FSA contributes the max to force the company's financial hand.  Also,  there are survivor benefits associated with the Pension.  When the funds run out of the 401k you are done.
 
4.  Vacation - 5th week after 25 years of service.  From the Jan 2014 Seniority Roster there are FT 1799/4487 = 40% and
     PT 133/1688 = 7.9% that would be eligible for 5 weeks vacation beginning next year.  Combined that is 1932/6175 = 31.2% that would be eligible.  I believe that is going to happen....it is just a matter of when.
 
5.  100% Sick Time Pay -- see last sentence of #4
 
6.  Scope -- The NC was able to secure protections for cities that would have be closed for Fleet.  Also, having 35 airports where US is staffed will help both work groups get back to cities from which they were displaced.
 
All in all I think that you need to see the bigger picture and commend the NC for sticking to their guns when dealing with the company.

Nelson will NEVER "commend" the 141 Leadership for anything. He hates them, and has for decades. He holds a grudge against the current folks for relieving him of his position for non-performance, and who knows what else he did to be fired...
 
Nelson sees the “Big Picture” all right, and that’s the picture HE wants for everyone to see!  If you, 700, me, and others weren't here posting these facts... Mr. Nelson would completely ignore them and cleverly omit them – He would post only negatives aspects of his own “spun” agenda for all to read here.
 
Of course, this would all be done to completely discredit the IAM and the leaders, to make him appear to be a champion for change, and a savior to Fleet!

 

[robbedagain]

I agree Solidarity    I commend our NC Team for standing the ground    Itll be interesting to see how much of "labor peace" DP truly wants.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
If you look at some of the sticking points they need to be dissected a little further:
 
1. $23 hourly top out -- at what cost.  From what I have heard the NC will not negotiate with themselves in this area of the talks.  Needs to be at least equal.  What is to say that they didn't start out asking for more.  I don't know, maybe you do
 
2. Premium Holiday Pay -- do you realize that if AA fleet does not work the day of the holiday they do not get holiday pay at all. For instance....if you bid S/M or M/T off for the entire year or are forced to take M/T due to lack of seniority and, lets say,  XMAS, New Years, and two other holidays fall on Monday plus Thanksgiving (always Thursday) you could actually get paid for 1 of 5 Premium Holidays.  Bad Deal that AA was FORCED to accept.  I repeat......FORCED to accept.
 
3. Pension vs. 401k match -- a combo of both would be best but it costs the company about the same if a top-out pay AA FSA contributes the max to force the company's financial hand.  Also,  there are survivor benefits associated with the Pension.  When the funds run out of the 401k you are done.
 
4.  Vacation - 5th week after 25 years of service.  From the Jan 2014 Seniority Roster there are FT 1799/4487 = 40% and
     PT 133/1688 = 7.9% that would be eligible for 5 weeks vacation beginning next year.  Combined that is 1932/6175 = 31.2% that would be eligible.  I believe that is going to happen....it is just a matter of when.
 
5.  100% Sick Time Pay -- see last sentence of #4
 
6.  Scope -- The NC was able to secure protections for cities that would have be closed for Fleet.  Also, having 35 airports where US is staffed will help both work groups get back to cities from which they were displaced.
 
All in all I think that you need to see the bigger picture and commend the NC for sticking to their guns when dealing with the company.

like i said, the iampf is cheaper in total as you keep forgetting that 40% of our workforce is pt and only gets .65 hr.

As far as the nc, i dont think any of us are fine with the nc not being in negotiations when negotiations happen. Hopefully this time, mr delaney will allow a usairways guy in the negotiation room. Not acceptable.

 

[ograc]

Tim,
 
If you look at some of the sticking points they need to be dissected a little further:
 
1. $23 hourly top out -- at what cost.  From what I have heard the NC will not negotiate with themselves in this area of the talks.  Needs to be at least equal.  What is to say that they didn't start out asking for more.  I don't know, maybe you do
 
2. Premium Holiday Pay -- do you realize that if AA fleet does not work the day of the holiday they do not get holiday pay at all. For instance....if you bid S/M or M/T off for the entire year or are forced to take M/T due to lack of seniority and, lets say,  XMAS, New Years, and two other holidays fall on Monday plus Thanksgiving (always Thursday) you could actually get paid for 1 of 5 Premium Holidays.  Bad Deal that AA was FORCED to accept.  I repeat......FORCED to accept.
 
3. Pension vs. 401k match -- a combo of both would be best but it costs the company about the same if a top-out pay AA FSA contributes the max to force the company's financial hand.  Also,  there are survivor benefits associated with the Pension.  When the funds run out of the 401k you are done.
 
4.  Vacation - 5th week after 25 years of service.  From the Jan 2014 Seniority Roster there are FT 1799/4487 = 40% and
     PT 133/1688 = 7.9% that would be eligible for 5 weeks vacation beginning next year.  Combined that is 1932/6175 = 31.2% that would be eligible.  I believe that is going to happen....it is just a matter of when.
 
5.  100% Sick Time Pay -- see last sentence of #4
 
6.  Scope -- The NC was able to secure protections for cities that would have be closed for Fleet.  Also, having 35 airports where US is staffed will help both work groups get back to cities from which they were displaced.
 
All in all I think that you need to see the bigger picture and commend the NC for sticking to their guns when dealing with the company.

As stated earlier... the entire compensation package must be considered when comparing AA to US. It's not just hourly wage. Solidarity. Could you shed some light on the medical benefits under the TWU AA contract? Specifically; the employees' monthly contribution, family coverage and single coverage. 100% vs. 80/20 and so forth. In order to make an educated comparison of the compensation package of TWU AA represented vs. IAM US represented all of this needs to be considered. As you stated... $23.00 per hour at what cost? The way I see it... AA makes more per hour but falls behind other existing contractual language at US Fleet. An in depth comparison of the "entire compensation package" between the carriers should be considered IMO. Otherwise, we could be robbing Peter to pay Paul. That's right where the company wants us.

 

[roabilly]

I can give this board 480 MILLION reasons why it is necessary for Fleet to hang tough, and demand a Industry Leading Agreement NOW...
 
Dallas News article AA profits soar!

 

[mike33]

I can give this board 480 MILLION reasons why it is necessary for Fleet to hang tough, and demand a Industry Leading Agreement NOW...
 
Dallas News article AA profits soar!

I think that the NMB is in a tough position. Here you have a company, that is possibly gonna make 1.6 billion in its first year of a merger and a work group who has given in 2 BK's to help subsidize this profit. How can the NMB deny the due of US fleet and MTC? I say they can't and to shroud the truth as parker and AH are  doing is going to bite them in the arse...... JMO. " Aint Gonna Happen BROTHER !!"
 
Locked and Loaded !!!

 

[P. REZ]

As stated earlier... the entire compensation package must be considered when comparing AA to US. It's not just hourly wage. Solidarity. Could you shed some light on the medical benefits under the TWU AA contract? Specifically; the employees' monthly contribution, family coverage and single coverage. 100% vs. 80/20 and so forth. In order to make an educated comparison of the compensation package of TWU AA represented vs. IAM US represented all of this needs to be considered. As you stated... $23.00 per hour at what cost? The way I see it... AA makes more per hour but falls behind other existing contractual language at US Fleet. An in depth comparison of the "entire compensation package" between the carriers should be considered IMO. Otherwise, we could be robbing Peter to pay Paul. That's right where the company wants us.

Ograc,
 
Go to twu.org and on the top bar hit "Air" where you will see TWU Airline Division contracts which you need to click on which takes you to American Airline Contracts which the Fleet contract is at the top. Then go to Article 41 p.149-163.
 
P. Rez

 

[freedom]

It will be interesting to see what the company offers...

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

I'll bet my last D2 pass that they are merely going through the motions so they can claim they are continuing to "Negotiating in good faith" and delay any release by the NMB.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Ograc,
 
Go to twu.org and on the top bar hit "Air" where you will see TWU Airline Division contracts which you need to click on which takes you to American Airline Contracts which the Fleet contract is at the top. Then go to Article 41 p.149-163.
 
P. Rez

http://twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf