2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

I just want to know when Tim and his Buddy Wiki, will admit they were 100% wrong on there "inside information" and why you are all giving him a pass on it and his horrid behavior, I know I would never want him to represent anyone.

FWIW, Wikileaks is an AGC. 
 
Here is what he posted in May and it seems 'spot on'. 
 
31 May 2014 - 06:56 PM
"Negotiations update, the negotiating team was able to successfully reach AA's top wage, however the progression is not the same. It did come at a price of course, in health care costs and some scope. The only thing holding it up from being brought back to the members ship, is Delaney is contemplating giving them a Helping hand agreement, we all know what that means who has been down this road before, we will lose all leverage at the next round of combined talks, because Mgmnt will have the helping hand agreement that says AA can help if US is short handed and no grievance will hold water, no bypass fellas. I commend the negotiating team on their hard work they finally got the hourly rate but it has come at a cost of some Non-core work and health care costs, to me this helping hand agreement is what will stop our leverage in future talks, some on the negotiating team know better."
 
Wiki never called me back since early May.  And he stopped posting on here.   Based on what he said above, very little changed in the last round of negotiations in mid June. 
 
Not sure what you are talking about him or me being wrong about things. I'm open to discussion on anything I myself was wrong about. 

 

[NYer]

FWIW, Wikileaks is an AGC. 
 
Here is what he posted in May and it seems 'spot on'. 
 
31 May 2014 - 06:56 PM
"Negotiations update, the negotiating team was able to successfully reach AA's top wage, however the progression is not the same. It did come at a price of course, in health care costs and some scope. The only thing holding it up from being brought back to the members ship, is Delaney is contemplating giving them a Helping hand agreement, we all know what that means who has been down this road before, we will lose all leverage at the next round of combined talks, because Mgmnt will have the helping hand agreement that says AA can help if US is short handed and no grievance will hold water, no bypass fellas. I commend the negotiating team on their hard work they finally got the hourly rate but it has come at a cost of some Non-core work and health care costs, to me this helping hand agreement is what will stop our leverage in future talks, some on the negotiating team know better."
 
Wiki never called me back since early May.  And he stopped posting on here.   Based on what he said above, very little changed in the last round of negotiations in mid June. 
 
Not sure what you are talking about him or me being wrong about things. I'm open to discussion on anything I myself was wrong about.

Keep reading Tim saying healthcare costs are going up and makes the connection it was a "give back" for wages....

There are no increase is costs and the only addition to the healthcare Articlesseems to reference a process that includes the union in the event the current plan falls into an Affodable Care excise tax in 2018. Tim either doesn't comprehend the written language or the agenda is quickly running out of steam.

No substance, no credibility.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'll give anyone a $100 if they can rightfully tell me how much our health care is going to cost in 2018.  A $100 bill.   Just tell me my deductible or contribution? 
Until then, give Ole AH credit for pulling this off and getting the company out of a jam by having the negotiating committee dressing this monumental problem up as something that will be worked out in joint talks.
 
No way in hell that management signs any TA without getting rid of the huge risk associated with Obama, but letting management off the hook for free is an abomination. 
 
The disparities continue as 40% of our workforce continues to get hammered with a bankrupt contract that these negotiators can't get out of after 10 years.  Part timers were betrayed and lied to.  Still paying tice for medical, half for pension, full for dues.  Anyone not topped out got hosed with a 3% pay raise over the last two years.  Topped out folks got a better shake, especially over 25 year guys.   Second bankrupt contract and these guys are ecstatic even though they agreed to keep half sick time, no holidays, no shift differ, no longevity, a pension that blows with only a dime extra,  no profit sharing, no increase in overtime, a health care situation that will surely blow up,   no nothing.  And I'm suppose to be excited? 
 
What the hell were they going to strike over?   The TA they got could have been had the first day of negotiations if they didn't want to have management drag things out a few years to get members hungry for any ole raise.
 
Sheesh!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Keep reading Tim saying healthcare costs are going up and makes the connection it was a "give back" for wages....

There are no increase is costs and the only addition to the healthcare Articlesseems to reference a process that includes the union in the event the current plan falls into an Affodable Care excise tax in 2018. Tim either doesn't comprehend the written language or the agenda is quickly running out of steam.

No substance, no credibility.

I read it, but show me where the process necessarily includes the union for final resolution?  This thing will go to a 3rd party quicker than a heart attack and you know it.   This is clearly a "See Management' Health care.  Show me otherwise with language. Otherwise go sell some real estate but don't con any more members.

 

[700UW]

Wrong on  the scope.
 
Wrong on the Healthcare.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Any part timer voting for this will be told by 700 that you deserve this after the TA passes.  Unless part timers love being pounded with the current bankrupt agreement, this TA doesn't do D*ck for them.  They and their issues were excluded.  I have no idea how many part timers were on the negotiations but I know there were about 12 negotiatinc committee members.  My hunch is that none of them were part time.

 

[700UW]

Hey Tim,
 
Where is the grievance from the company against the TWU since they went beyond the date for the SCS filing and hasnt filed for it?
 
Where is the great pain and financial penalty you said US was going to get from them?
 
Oh wait, you said they would sue the TWU, even after I showed you that you were incorrect on the process to resolve any dispute.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hey Tim,
 
Where is the grievance from the company against the TWU since they went beyond the date for the SCS filing and hasnt filed for it?
 
Where is the great pain and financial penalty you said US was going to get from them?
 
Oh wait, you said they would sue the TWU, even after I showed you that you were incorrect on the process to resolve any dispute.

Kindly go back and review my post.  The D day was July 9th.  The TA was June 20 something and that precluded it.  Hard to understand?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Don't let the negotiators marginalize the health care problem. Folks, we really aren't even talking about modifications, it's worse that that, the negotiators gave the company the right to actually abolish all 3 plans if necessary and then to develop a new 80% plan, presumably the one at AA which isn't good for any of us.  Ask yourself, what scenario is management afraid of that made it secure such protections?

 

[charlie Brown]

Everyone
Again. The letter only applies to a plan that reaches " Cadillac status " which is set right now at 27,500 per year. If the plan doesn't reach that amount then the company can do nothing to the plan. And for any plan that may reach Cadillac status, there are many things that would have to happen before the company could just abandon the plan. Tim ask the question can we tell him how much his insurance is going to be in 2018? No we can't. Just like nobody has been able to tell us how much our insurance was gonna be the last several years. We negotiate the percentage that we pay. Not the amount. The percentages remain the same.

 

[WeAAsles]

Don't let the negotiators marginalize the health care problem. Folks, we really aren't even talking about modifications, it's worse that that, the negotiators gave the company the right to actually abolish all 3 plans if necessary and then to develop a new 80% plan, presumably the one at AA which isn't good for any of us.  Ask yourself, what scenario is management afraid of that made it secure such protections?

Tim your argument against possible healthcare costs holds no water against the base rate you will likely be at in the year any changes could wind up taking affect. As I've already pointed out if the CBA stands as is you will be seeing at least a $720.00 per month increase from where you are now in the year 2017. That's an absolute looking at the snapshot today.

Now let's talk about the possibilities under a JCBA scenario. We know that the top base rate currently will be UAL in 2016. That's 2 years earlier from when the possible changes could take affect. There rate will be $26.64 per hour. "Assuming" at the very least we are at that rate by 2018, 2 years later than the amendable date for UAL. That will make the grand total from where you are now $960.00 per month more.

Let me ask you Tim. Do you or does ANYONE actually believe that you will be paying over $960.00 per month more for medical than you are paying today????

Let's try to bring our thoughts back down to reality shall we Tim?
 

 

[robbedagain]

I for one would like to see a comparison of that from DL and WN and if you take those 2 airlines plus UA  you can probably get a ballpark figure of what we at the new AA will probably be getting in around that time frame....

 

[WeAAsles]

Everyone
Again. The letter only applies to a plan that reaches " Cadillac status " which is set right now at 27,500 per year. If the plan doesn't reach that amount then the company can do nothing to the plan. And for any plan that may reach Cadillac status, there are many things that would have to happen before the company could just abandon the plan. Tim ask the question can we tell him how much his insurance is going to be in 2018? No we can't. Just like nobody has been able to tell us how much our insurance was gonna be the last several years. We negotiate the percentage that we pay. Not the amount. The percentages remain the same.

Exactly. So going back to my calculations above. Does anyone think they are going to see a percentage rise of $960.00 per month? Or even still, $720.00 per month from where we know you will be at the end of the CBA as it currently stands?

The argument that Tim is trying to make holds ZERO water.

 

[WeAAsles]

I for one would like to see a comparison of that from DL and WN and if you take those 2 airlines plus UA  you can probably get a ballpark figure of what we at the new AA will probably be getting in around that time frame....

Robbed I already factored in the math for industry comparison for our 2015 rate. The total comes out near $25.00 per hour at the end of our CBA. WN is not factored into the equation as that is not a part of our agreement.

 

[NYer]

I'll give anyone a $100 if they can rightfully tell me how much our health care is going to cost in 2018.  A $100 bill.   Just tell me my deductible or contribution? 
Until then, give Ole AH credit for pulling this off and getting the company out of a jam by having the negotiating committee dressing this monumental problem up as something that will be worked out in joint talks.
 
No way in hell that management signs any TA without getting rid of the huge risk associated with Obama, but letting management off the hook for free is an abomination. 
 
The disparities continue as 40% of our workforce continues to get hammered with a bankrupt contract that these negotiators can't get out of after 10 years.  Part timers were betrayed and lied to.  Still paying tice for medical, half for pension, full for dues.  Anyone not topped out got hosed with a 3% pay raise over the last two years.  Topped out folks got a better shake, especially over 25 year guys.   Second bankrupt contract and these guys are ecstatic even though they agreed to keep half sick time, no holidays, no shift differ, no longevity, a pension that blows with only a dime extra,  no profit sharing, no increase in overtime, a health care situation that will surely blow up,   no nothing.  And I'm suppose to be excited? 
 
What the hell were they going to strike over?   The TA they got could have been had the first day of negotiations if they didn't want to have management drag things out a few years to get members hungry for any ole raise.
 
Sheesh!

You wouldn't be excited until rows of Members bow at you feet.

Those issues you bring wouldn't be dealt with under the uncertainty of Joint talks, which will fix many of the points you bring up.

No one was left off the hook to answer for an uncertainty 4 years away. It merely set a process in which an arbitrator can rule unless both sides cone to a mutual agreement. The issue may also be fixed legislatively or it may not cone up at all. In the meantime, there are positives in the TA, including the beginning of Joint talks.

You complain, but don't bring up viable alternatives.