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2014 Pilot Discussion

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Claxon said:
another army of lyingitas sarcastic update.
 
Dear fellow "youse" west guys .
 
Please welcome the 1990 date of hire brothers and sisters american airline pilot f/0's you will be flying with because of your 2003 date of hire.  You saved them, they owe you,
 
eric ferguson, class of late 2003
 
Now that's being just plain mean-spirited Claxon...From our experience with many mergers: We all know that the mighty nation/notion of AWA/PHX "spartans" will be unquestionably revered, if not immediately held in even utter and complete awe, and properly elevated to the very highest seats within the APA's realm as a soon as is humanly possible...Just ask the "spartans"...not-so-much ask the APA. 😉
 
american airline pilots meeting with america west pilots video. 
 
(sarcasm)
 
You know why I hate "youse" american guys, I was a 757 pilot, payed the same as all pilots with america west, but my phallictic aircraft right seat postition impressed the babe holding up the sign next to me? 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N66EvBBj5tQ
 
Claxon said:
american airline pilots meeting with america west pilots video. 
 
(sarcasm)
 
You know why I hate "youse" american guys, I was a 757 pilot, payed the same as all pilots with america west, but my phallictic aircraft right seat postition impressed the babe holding up the sign next to me? 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N66EvBBj5tQ
 
Indeed. One minute 28 seconds or so into that. Who wouldn't/couldn't be properly and entirely impressed with a balding/shaved-headed-simian, both gesturing ape-like and further proving his highly evolved "intelligence" through such erudite exclamations? 😉 Sigh! Lord Knows I certainly was. (THIS thing is a suposed PILOT!!??...SERIOUSLY!!??) The APA wil be no doubt be the "spartans" pearl for the claiming! 🙂
 
I'll insult no man I won't properly stand against. For "you'se", the balded simian on the video; wager's always open....and I can pay any forfeit or loss in bananas, if "you'se" wish...umm..."Pilot to"...umm...err..."pilot", as "you'se" asked. Otherwise? At least 5 grand wagered is appreciated for the otherwise complete waste of my time..."Pilot to pilot"...and idiotic hand/arm gestures, gutteral level illiteracy/etc fail to impress. Can "you'se", however obviously just-plain-stupid and hopelessly illiterate, actually FLY? 🙂 PM if "you'se" want a shot at any bananas....?
 
I've got some slight hopes for this particular "spartan" responding. He truly does seem to be, as kindly as it can be put, but still, just plain stupid.
 
Perhaps the east's greatest folly lay in not seeking out the likes of Dr. Jane Goodall to translate earlier efforts at negotions with such basic level primates. "You'se"...Drool/Froth/Gesture/etc..."I hate every one of you'se"...more drool/froth/etc. In future dealings with the west, if any, a good pre-mission launch question would be:  Does anyone have some spare bananas to throw at the "spartans"? 😉
 
Leonidas Update

Perseverance, Unity, Courage

These are the principles which have guided the former America West pilots over the last six years, and the developments of recent weeks have shown that we are more united and determined than ever as we enter the final phase of the East/West seniority dispute.

On Friday, February 7th, the Company filed a Motion to Correct Courts Judgment Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 60(a) and to modify Courts order pursuant to Rule 52-b and 59(e). You can read the Rule 60 motion here. This motion asks Judge Silver to:

1. describe the class to be bound by the judgment and

2. to remove Footnote 15 so that the Order cannot be construed to prohibit the Allied Pilots Association (APA) after it has been certified as the single collective bargaining representative for all of the US Airways/American pilots from creating and delegating authority to separate merger committees to represent the disparate seniority interests of the pre-merger US Airways and pre-merger American pilots

In the first part, the Company contends that procedural rules require that the judgment in a class action should ...describe the members of the class. According to the Company, Judge Silvers order does not comply with this requirement, because it does not include and describe those whom the court finds to be class members and that there is nothing in the Judgment indicating that this case is a class action. Therefore, the Company is asking Judge Silver to describe the West Class using the same definition in the Courts September 18, 2013 Order granting class certification (Doc. 194).

In the second part, the Company is asking Judge Silver to remove Footnote 15 which states: The MOU contemplates the need for arbitration but also requires the post-merger carrier remain neutral. Under the Courts reading of McCaskill-Bond, there will be no need for arbitration because, based on explicit language in the MOU, prior to the arbitration, there will have been an election and there will be only one certified representative for all pilots. Simply put, with the carrier having promised neutrality, there will not be two parties to go to arbitration.

According to the Company, if the US Airways/American pilots seniority-integration process is not completed before the National Mediation Board certifies the APA as the single collective bargaining representative for all of the post-merger (US Airways and American) pilots, the Courts Order instructs that US Airways/American and the APA will both be responsible for ensuring that the pilot seniority lists are integrated in a lawful manner and in accordance with a lawful procedure. In order to avoid potential confusion, to provide maximum flexibility to resolve the seniority-integration dispute in a manner consistent with McCaskill-Bond and the APAs duty of fair representation to all employees, including by means of an arbitration between merger committees, and to reduce the possibility of future legal challenges to the integrated seniority list that ultimately is generated, US Airways respectfully requests that the Court delete Footnote 15 in its Order a footnote which is not essential to the Courts holding regarding the status of the West Pilots in the McCaskill-Bond process.

As a result of the Companys Rule 60 motion, the 30-day window to file an appeal has been reset and does not restart until Judge Silver makes her final ruling to the Companys motion.

We believe that the filing of this motion is a clear indication that the Company interprets Judge Silvers order in a way that any rational person or union would: under McCaskill-Bond the West pilot class might not be entitled to a seat at the table, but the Bargaining Agent, whether USAPA or APA, at its own discretion and subject to its Duty of Fair Representation, can and should delegate authority to a separate West merger committee because of the inherent conflict between East and West pilots on the issue of seniority. This inherent conflict will not disappear when the East Pilots are folded into APA.

Once the National Mediation Board certifies the APA as the exclusive bargaining agent for both pre-merger US Airways and American Airlines pilots, the APA will owe a Duty of Fair Representation to all pilots equally. It will also be the APAs and the Companys responsibility to ensure there is a fair and equitable seniority integration process as mandated by the McCaskill-Bond legislation. Creating three separate merger committees to represent the disparate seniority interests is, in our opinion, the safest method for the APA to comply with its DFR to all New American pilots, as well as comply with the McCaskill-Bond Act.

It can hardly be disputed that during the past six years, USAPA has repeatedly demonstrated hostility towards the West pilots in terms of seniority. We anticipate that APA has no interest in taking the path chosen by USAPA. In expectation of APA honoring its duty to all New American pilots, we believe the West pilots need an SLI attorney and are pleased to announce that we have been able to retain Jeff Freund to assist us in that capacity. Please join us in welcoming back Jeff.

We know the West pilots will share our exuberance over this development; the attorney who brought us the Nicolau will now be working side by side with the tremendous litigators who stopped USAPA dead in their tracks for six years. We also surmise that the West pilots have a ton of questions for these four attorneys. Since it has been a long time since our last Meet and Greet, we figured this was the opportune time for another one. So, mark your calendars for next week: Thursday, February 20th, at 10AM, at the Crowne Plaza Hotel located at the corner of 44th St. and Washington. Marty, Andy and Jen will be there, as will Jeff. The four attorneys will be available from 10AM-2PM. As always, spouses are welcome to attend.

We at Leonidas truly believe that the seniority dispute is nearing its conclusion. We also believe that the West would have never survived the USAPA onslaught were it not for the perseverance, unity and courage of this special pilot group. The past six years have been incredibly challenging and trying, but we have stuck together and most importantly, we havent changed who we are. The West work ethic is second to none. Six years of commitment along with several million dollars have saved the West from annihilation. Now, were almost there, and with your continued support we will finish this once and for all.
 
snapthis said:
We believe...
 
We know...
 
We at Leonidas truly believe ....
 
Sigh!...This'll truly take some professionally trained, cult deprogramming experts to help "you'se" at all, after all this farce is finished. 😉
 
Is the "We" used as the Royal We?..Meaning really just one idiot in fact?...Or do any at "Leonidas" not wish to personally affix their names plural, to such utter nonsense? Just curious.
 
"We know the West pilots will share our exuberance over this development;" Seriously? Should "We" presumably take all of "you'se" constituents to be as much completely hopeless, village idiots as "We" do? I think not but...Rhetorical really, no need to answer that. I don't for one minute even imagine that all on the west are as completely brain-dead as "you'se"/"We" imagine, but that's just me, and not any royal "We" speaking. 😉
 
"with your continued support we will finish this once and for all."..Sigh!...OK. I'll help in the meanwhile. Click to Donate:  http://leonidas.cact...ions_OCT13.html
 
P.S. Even the ending garnered a minus vote? = "with your continued support we will finish this once and for all."..Sigh!...OK. I'll help in the meanwhile. Click to Donate:  http://leonidas.cact...ions_OCT13.html
 
Should I have just asked for all to clap if they truly believed in Faeries, so that Tinkerbelle would live? 🙂...Or was it the part about: "I don't for one minute even imagine that all on the west are as completely brain-dead as "you'se"/"We" imagine"...? Perhaps "you'se" really ARE that truly stupid, and who am I to improperly credit or presume otherwise?
 
This week is shaping up nicely.

What do you east guys think the VPs are going to tell uscaba Wed morning?

I bet it will be, hey SCABs, keep fuching up, and you will not be allowed to pick the east merger committee members!

West is set to go, and we have arguably the BEST RLA attorney in the business.

You east guys know Freund? right? You have misquoted him for years now!


PS....the Nicolau seniority award is the only accepted system seniority list in "effect" for all LCC pilots. You did vote in favor of that in the MOU by the way.
 
nic4us said:
West is set to go, and we have arguably the BEST RLA attorney in the business.
 
Wonderfull! Let us all know how that works out for "you'se". 😉
 
Per: "hey SCABs, keep fuching up...? Do your parents at all monitor your internet access? They should. Replacing clogged keyboards from such frothing, drooling spittle alone should be cause for some concern.
 
Seriously though nic: I'm here mostly for the provided jokes. That "you'se" are one likely isn't your fault, nor intended...but still, thanks for the chuckles. 🙂
 
Leonidas update:
 

We believe...
 
We know...
 
We at Leonidas truly believe ....
 

Have a fine evening, mighty "spartans" and don't forget to Click to Donate: http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Contributions/Leonidas_Contributions_OCT13.html
 
Should any of "you'se" need a nurturing and comforting lullaby? Just repeat, as if properly (and most approriately) counting sheep:
 
We believe...
 
We know...
 
We at Leonidas truly believe ....
 
Should even that come up short in instilling happy and stress-free dreams?...Well...there's always the "fact" that "The Shield of Leonidas is Protecting You!" 🙂
 
snapthis said:
Leonidas Update
Perseverance, Unity, Courage
These are the principles which have guided the former America West pilots over the last six years, and the developments of recent weeks have shown that we are more united and determined than ever as we enter the final phase of the East/West seniority dispute.
On Friday, February 7th, the Company filed a Motion to Correct Courts Judgment Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 60(a) and to modify Courts order pursuant to Rule 52-b and 59(e). You can read the Rule 60 motion here. This motion asks Judge Silver to:
1. describe the class to be bound by the judgment and
2. to remove Footnote 15 so that the Order cannot be construed to prohibit the Allied Pilots Association (APA) after it has been certified as the single collective bargaining representative for all of the US Airways/American pilots from creating and delegating authority to separate merger committees to represent the disparate seniority interests of the pre-merger US Airways and pre-merger American pilots
In the first part, the Company contends that procedural rules require that the judgment in a class action should ...describe the members of the class. According to the Company, Judge Silvers order does not comply with this requirement, because it does not include and describe those whom the court finds to be class members and that there is nothing in the Judgment indicating that this case is a class action. Therefore, the Company is asking Judge Silver to describe the West Class using the same definition in the Courts September 18, 2013 Order granting class certification (Doc. 194).
In the second part, the Company is asking Judge Silver to remove Footnote 15 which states: The MOU contemplates the need for arbitration but also requires the post-merger carrier remain neutral. Under the Courts reading of McCaskill-Bond, there will be no need for arbitration because, based on explicit language in the MOU, prior to the arbitration, there will have been an election and there will be only one certified representative for all pilots. Simply put, with the carrier having promised neutrality, there will not be two parties to go to arbitration.
According to the Company, if the US Airways/American pilots seniority-integration process is not completed before the National Mediation Board certifies the APA as the single collective bargaining representative for all of the post-merger (US Airways and American) pilots, the Courts Order instructs that US Airways/American and the APA will both be responsible for ensuring that the pilot seniority lists are integrated in a lawful manner and in accordance with a lawful procedure. In order to avoid potential confusion, to provide maximum flexibility to resolve the seniority-integration dispute in a manner consistent with McCaskill-Bond and the APAs duty of fair representation to all employees, including by means of an arbitration between merger committees, and to reduce the possibility of future legal challenges to the integrated seniority list that ultimately is generated, US Airways respectfully requests that the Court delete Footnote 15 in its Order a footnote which is not essential to the Courts holding regarding the status of the West Pilots in the McCaskill-Bond process.
As a result of the Companys Rule 60 motion, the 30-day window to file an appeal has been reset and does not restart until Judge Silver makes her final ruling to the Companys motion.
We believe that the filing of this motion is a clear indication that the Company interprets Judge Silvers order in a way that any rational person or union would: under McCaskill-Bond the West pilot class might not be entitled to a seat at the table, but the Bargaining Agent, whether USAPA or APA, at its own discretion and subject to its Duty of Fair Representation, can and should delegate authority to a separate West merger committee because of the inherent conflict between East and West pilots on the issue of seniority. This inherent conflict will not disappear when the East Pilots are folded into APA.
Once the National Mediation Board certifies the APA as the exclusive bargaining agent for both pre-merger US Airways and American Airlines pilots, the APA will owe a Duty of Fair Representation to all pilots equally. It will also be the APAs and the Companys responsibility to ensure there is a fair and equitable seniority integration process as mandated by the McCaskill-Bond legislation. Creating three separate merger committees to represent the disparate seniority interests is, in our opinion, the safest method for the APA to comply with its DFR to all New American pilots, as well as comply with the McCaskill-Bond Act.
It can hardly be disputed that during the past six years, USAPA has repeatedly demonstrated hostility towards the West pilots in terms of seniority. We anticipate that APA has no interest in taking the path chosen by USAPA. In expectation of APA honoring its duty to all New American pilots, we believe the West pilots need an SLI attorney and are pleased to announce that we have been able to retain Jeff Freund to assist us in that capacity. Please join us in welcoming back Jeff.
We know the West pilots will share our exuberance over this development; the attorney who brought us the Nicolau will now be working side by side with the tremendous litigators who stopped USAPA dead in their tracks for six years. We also surmise that the West pilots have a ton of questions for these four attorneys. Since it has been a long time since our last Meet and Greet, we figured this was the opportune time for another one. So, mark your calendars for next week: Thursday, February 20th, at 10AM, at the Crowne Plaza Hotel located at the corner of 44th St. and Washington. Marty, Andy and Jen will be there, as will Jeff. The four attorneys will be available from 10AM-2PM. As always, spouses are welcome to attend.
We at Leonidas truly believe that the seniority dispute is nearing its conclusion. We also believe that the West would have never survived the USAPA onslaught were it not for the perseverance, unity and courage of this special pilot group. The past six years have been incredibly challenging and trying, but we have stuck together and most importantly, we havent changed who we are. The West work ethic is second to none. Six years of commitment along with several million dollars have saved the West from annihilation. Now, were almost there, and with your continued support we will finish this once and for all.
Too bad you won't get to use him.
 
Pi brat said:
Man, my feet just got cold. I agree with you, to a point.
 
The fairness of the Nic is irrelevant. What can and will be done with it is the question.
 
We were in a quagmire. USAPA failed in getting a DOH east/west list. We were looking at a situation where the US pilots would be on the outside looking in. The legally elected CBA decided to do something different. We all voted for it. You guys sued, saying that the agreement you voted for was a violation or you DFR. A federal judge agreed with you that the MOU abandoned the Nic, but disagreed that it was a failure of the CBA's DFR.
 
Move on.
I couldn't disagree more. It's always been about fairness, otherwise there would not have been a dispute. Final and Binding always assumed fairness in the award and when it couldn't be found uniformly, the dispute elevated to it's current status.
 
end_of_alpa said:
Too bad you won't get to use him.
Oh. Speaking of Freund does anyone at the APA smell ALPA interference? Because that is who Freund represents. ALPA.

I predict that USAPA will file for an injunction in the DC circuit and prolong the merger integration.

I predict that this ultimately goes to the Supreme Court.

As I have said all along the APA is the enemy.
 
end_of_alpa said:
Oh. Speaking of Freund does anyone at the APA smell ALPA interference? Because that is who Freund represents. ALPA.

I predict that USAPA will file for an injunction in the DC circuit and prolong the merger integration.

I predict that this ultimately goes to the Supreme Court.

As I have said all along the APA is the enemy.
Isn't that the guy that argued the Nicalou award was nothing more than an ALPA bargaining proposal that was only supported by the ALPA C & BL, so there was nothing to vacate when the old ALPA US Airways MEC sued the AWA MEC to have the award vacated for violating the tennets of the merger policy?
 
Pi brat said:
You guys always get that wrong. Nic4us said a gazillion. ;-)
Just write out check for a "gazillion" dollars, in fact every east pilot could write out a check like that because it can't be cashed!
 
All the best,
 
Bob
 
end_of_alpa said:
Oh. Speaking of Freund does anyone at the APA smell ALPA interference? Because that is who Freund represents. ALPA.

I predict that USAPA will file for an injunction in the DC circuit and prolong the merger integration.

I predict that this ultimately goes to the Supreme Court.

As I have said all along the APA is the enemy.
Agreed , like I said No list for at least 3 years, No JCBA till the deadline DEC 2018! DC federal court, now that is going to be fun!
 
ROACLT said:
Isn't that the guy that argued the Nicalou award was nothing more than an ALPA bargaining proposal that was only supported by the ALPA C & BL, so there was nothing to vacate when the old ALPA US Airways MEC sued the AWA MEC to have the award vacated for violating the tennets of the merger policy?
The one and only.
 
nic4us said:
This week is shaping up nicely.

PS....the Nicolau seniority award is the only accepted system seniority list in "effect" for all LCC pilots. You did vote in favor of that in the MOU by the way.
The westies voted for the MOU, too. You know, the MOU that nullifies all previous agreements and contracts? Like the TA that the Nic was mentioned in?
The Nic was never (repeat: never) in "effect" anywhere except in the imaginations of certain west pilots.
The only seniority listS in effect are the east and west lists, ordered by - wait for it! - DATE OF HIRE!
Oh, and what is the west class legal standing as pertains to MB negotiations?
ZIPPO! NADA! ZILCH! ZERO!
I'm so glad this is close to being over. Can we discuss something else?
 
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