2014 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

How many American mergers ever went to arbitration? As far as I know, zero.
I expect the APA to continue to avoid arbitration just as they have before.

 
So you're expecting us to get the TWA treatment.
 
Got it.

 

[Metroyet]

You keep shouting that the West pilots were imbeciles, unable to read paragraph 4 of the MOU, or paragraph 10 of the MOU.  Your Leonidas Leaders exchanged emails saying that Marty was dead wrong.  They knew the MOU nullified the 2005 TA, and your leaders recommended you vote for the MOU if you wanted to see a merger with American according to the terms of the MOU. 
 
It is never illegal to negotiate a new contract to replace a current contract.  That is why the Leonidas LLC recommended you vote for what you want "according to the terms of the MOU."   You guys paid millions of dollars and that is the best your "leaders" could advise.  
 
If you were not such self professed imbeciles you could have given yourself that advice for free.  You chose a new contract to replace an old contract.   Integrity matters.   🙂

You know damn well what Hummel and Symanski said about sli neutrality. Then they did the opposite hoping no one would notice. Silver allowed a trial after warning you of dangerous ground. Play stupid all you want, nobody that matters believes you.

 

[Freighterguynow]

No **** Sherlock

 

[Graceson]

 
What do you think the odds of arbitration are?
 
I say 80%.

the path to an SLI is like a meandering stream.who knows from which direction it will come.there will be earthquakes, eruptions, torrential rains, and feeble attempts at man-made dams.

I don't believe APA favors arbitration.there's always the risk of the unknown when one relinquishs control to another's idea of destiny. besides the trend is less than favorable for airlines merging while emerging from bankruptcy.

I think USAPA would Prefer a negotiated settlement but would likely test APAs resolve if they attempt to over reach beyond a United Continental standard.

I think the West will busy itself building a dam holding back possibilities of a negotiated settlement.

the company and the courts are the wild cards. the company wants to be free of liability while proving to creditors it can actually make synergies a reality.the court wants to ideally get this muddled mess Off their docket without judgement overturned on appeal.

tell me.do you believe management has been reasonable in its efforts to further the West cause?

 

[nevergiveup]

 
I see you haven't learned anything from the Nicolau Arbitration.

We have learned that it needs to be something both sides can live with. We also learned that if there is a requirement to be put in place before thee list can be used, then we cannot bypass it. 
 
Result: a. It must be something both (3 perhaps) sides can live with.
        
            b. We need it with no strings or requirements attached if we want to ever implement it.
 
            c. To be determined at a later date by some union committee. 

 

[traderjake]

tell me.do you believe management has been reasonable in its efforts to further the West cause?

 
I believe the company has been reasonable in it's efforts to shield itself from litigation.

 

[767one]

the path to an SLI is like a meandering stream.who knows from which direction it will come.there will be earthquakes, eruptions, torrential rains, and feeble attempts at man-made dams.

I don't believe APA favors arbitration.there's always the risk of the unknown when one relinquishs control to another's idea of destiny. besides the trend is less than favorable for airlines merging while emerging from bankruptcy.

I think USAPA would Prefer a negotiated settlement but would likely test APAs resolve if they attempt to over reach beyond a United Continental standard.

I think the West will busy itself building a dam holding back possibilities of a negotiated settlement.

the company and the courts are the wild cards. the company wants to be free of liability while proving to creditors it can actually make synergies a reality.the court wants to ideally get this muddled mess Off their docket without judgement overturned on appeal.

tell me.do you believe management has been reasonable in its efforts to further the West cause?

I think management will push the nic if it will get the merger completed quickly. They have been and will be self serving because it is who they are and what they do. They could have made the decision years ago to accept the west wanted or what the east wanted. There would have been a lawsuit but I would be willing to bet that they would have put that off for decades.For years they wanted the pilots fighting each other and that worked to keep wages low. It appears now that they want to get the merger totally completed so they will support whoever they think will get that done the quickest. They will screw the east, the west and the legacy American pilots if they can. I would love to see the pilot groups figure out a way to shove it up managements six.
 
Good luck,
 
Bob

 

[767one]

 
I believe the company has been reasonable in it's efforts to shield itself from litiagation.

Trader,
 
I really don't think the company was concerned about litigation. I think they were just enjoying the fruits of the infighting.
 
Bob

 

[crazystnic]

This shows the west mindset... obstruct obstruct obstruct...
And don't ever negotatie with USAPA... Just keep praying for the NIC.
 
At approximately 1052, the following resolution was moved/seconded by DiOrio/Borman. As part of the discussion, PHL Chairman Paul DiOrio made a short statement which included a commitment to work together in the future and in a show of solidarity, he and Gary shook hands which was immediately followed by applause from the pilots in attendance. The resolution then passed 7-2-2 (Yes - CLT, DCA Stein, PHL; No - PHX Scherff, Velez; Abstain - DCA Mullen, PHX Simmons).
WHEREAS the members of the BPR are passionate in their belief of what is best for their pilots and,
WHEREAS individual members of the BPR do what they believe is right in representing their pilots and,
WHEREAS we have had our differences, we also recognize we have much to gain by working together for the overall good for ALL USAPA members and,
WHEREAS we have important business ahead of us, in particular the JCBA and seniority integration process.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED the BPR stands united in working together to gain the best possible outcome for our pilots as we move ahead in the merger process.

 

[Graceson]

 
I believe the company has been reasonable in it's efforts to shield itself from litiagation.

I agree. Any casual observer would have to agree. they have been extraordinarily reasonable in their effort to advocate for the west. should they be called before the court, management may rightfully shake its head, spread its arms beseechingly, and declare that it argued for the plaintiff's in every available venue, legal or otherwise... and the court would agree.

if management is off the hook and silver is as enamored with management's legal counsel as she appears to be, then it's hard to believe she wouldn't give them what they want. that is a non judgement or a ruling with deference to the 9th circuit court of appeals.

it's a win for silver unlikely to be overturned on appeal.

after successfully navigating the minefield,this is management shortest path to realized synergies absent the legal accusations of complicity.

 

[nevergiveup]

I agree. Any casual observer would have to agree. they have been extraordinarily reasonable in their effort to advocate for the west. should they be called before the court, management may rightfully shake its head, spread its arms beseechingly, and declare that it argued for the plaintiff's in every available venue, legal or otherwise... and the court would agree.

if management is off the hook and silver is as enamored with management's legal counsel as she appears to be, then it's hard to believe she wouldn't give them what they want. that is a non judgement or a ruling with deference to the 9th circuit court of appeals.

it's a win for silver unlikely to be overturned on appeal.

after successfully navigating the minefield,this is management shortest path to realized synergies absent the legal accusations of complicity.

cya at its best!

 

[767one]

cya at its best!

That's a lot of covering because there's a bunch of azz's in that group!

 

[Phoenix]

You know damn well what Hummel and Symanski said about sli neutrality. Then they did the opposite hoping no one would notice. Silver allowed a trial after warning you of dangerous ground. Play stupid all you want, nobody that matters believes you.

 
 
Do you need someone to hold your hand and read you the definition of "neutral"?  You still have no idea what "implicit assumption" means.   I would recommend you master the latter before you attempt the former.  

 

[dca319]

"show of solidarity, he and Gary shook hands"

...and tightened their grips on the knives they were holding behind their backs.

 

[Phoenix]

"show of solidarity, he and Gary shook hands"

...and tightened their grips on the knives they were holding behind their backs.

 
 
Like when the West voted 98% to join together and move forward?