2014 Pilot Discussion

[A320 Driver]

We don't want arbitration and we don't want West pilots to have a voice because an arbitrator may conclude the previous arbitrator got it right.
 

I don't think there is much chance of that...
I doubt seriously if they waste much time on it. They will probably take three lists, look at who is flying what, and decide from there based on the current paradigm.

 

[traderjake]

If they don't so be it, I''ll be a very senior 777 capt. while displacing an AA pilot, are you OK with that? Now that's stealing a job.

 
You're stupid enough to believe that.

 

[luvthe9]

You're stupid enough to believe that.

Well which is it you can't have both dimwit!

 

[algflyr]

Ok,
No one has to affirm the NIC.  You agree'd to binding arbitration and the arbitrator ruled.
 
 

 
AA, I don't think you understand how the arbitration that produced the Nic list was structured and why it is no longer valid. Let me try to explain it in another way. Follow me for a minute and tell me what you think in a hypothetical scenario.
 
Lets take the combination of AA and TWA. I'm gonna make-up a scenario that has similar circumstances. While this is not the way it went down, let's assume for this scenario that it did happen this way. Although the TWA pilots were not COMPLETELY stapled, I think it's close enough for everyone to realize they lost a LOT in the SLI with AA.
 
Let's say the AA-TWA SLI went to an arbitrator. The arbitrator ruled that the TWA pilots would get one of two things. 1. They would get straight DOH in the SLI provided TWA, within one year, could emerge from BK and show a profit, proving they were a viable business. If after that one year, they could NOT meet that requirement, they would 2, be stapled to the AA list.
 
So after one year goes by, TWA could NOT meet that requirement as set forth in the arbitration decision by exiting BK and showing a profit. Thus they would get the staple job (option 2) under the arbitration.
 
Would you argue that they should get straight DOH anyway, even though they did NOT meet the conditions of the arbitration that would allow them to have option 1? I mean if the arbitration decision had a specific condition that must be met in order to be implemented, but it wasn't met, do you think the APA would just give it to them anyway just to be nice? I'd be interested in your thoughts on this...

 

[EastUS1]

....portraying West pilots as the wide-body grabbing pilots when in reality, it's the opportunist depicted here who's wide-body appetite is unsatisfied.

 
"You'se" must mean prechill, one must suppose? How many times have we heard how she's bidding to a 330 left seat anytime now? 😉
Pre: "Be sure to get my fo's up to speed before I get there next year. Thank you."
 
I can't take much more "spartan" hilarity at present. Enough laughs for now, and thanks again for all of them, both now, and over the course of history here. 🙂
 

 

[Claxon]

That's BS and you know it. Not ONE West pilot lost his job to an East pilot. NOT ONE. Unlike the bump and flush that has been discussed here by others should West prevail in court. The West could have prospered with everyone else had they not demanded the NIC and endorsed the company in their position to keep us on LOA93 for as long as possible.
 
You're a disgrace and a blatant liar.

Spinthis may be writing Traitors lines. Spinthis actually alters court rulings.
This is the fantasy world of Leonidas.

 

[Claxon]

I don't think there is much chance of that...
I doubt seriously if they waste much time on it. They will probably take three lists, look at who is flying what, and decide from there based on the current paradigm.

Wait until they see east new hires as captains. Lots of them. Wide body f/o also.

 

[AAviator]

Who said anything about affirming the NIC?
 
I'll help you out here..
 
What is the NIC?
 
LUVthe9,
USAPA sued APA because they want postmortem relevance.  The Judge, and the MOU said otherwise

Fresh Tyvek suit on today..  Lets pick up here shall we?   😛
 
LUVthe9, did I get the reason right?

 

[AAviator]

OMG, did an Eastie just agree with something I've said?

I've got to retract this statement.  EastUS1 modified what I said, then agree'd with it.  
 
Note to self..  when someone is on your ignore list, he's earned that spot.

 

[Claxon]

Keep in mind, you are talking with this guy. I'll introduce you to Courtney. Hired in 1999, furloughed after a couple of years, returning in 2007. Phoenix commuter who scored political points with former Usapian Prez, Mike Cleary. He sniffed around Phoenix, reporting back to the Fuhrer.
 
He has been banned from handing out pizza and Usapian propaganda to new hires at the Phoenix training facility.
 
So, you see him here, portraying West pilots as the wide-body grabbing pilots when in reality, it's the opportunist depicted here who's wide-body appetite is unsatisfied.
 

courtneyB.gif
 
Courtney Luv

You got him. What took so long?

 

[AAviator]

 
So you believe Mov2CLT created this little ruse in 2002?
 
AAviator Member Since 12 Nov 2002

I feel your pain..  I really do..

 

[AAviator]

I am not proposing the Nic should be used. I am not asserting it must be used. I am not begging others to agree it can be used. I am not begging others to assume it must be used.

If YOU want to use it, if you assert it must be used then just give us one authoritative document affirming it. Just one.

Ahhhh, wordsmithing…  I'm slow, so I'll have to verify your statement..  You think for some reason that the APA will use the NIC and not what USAPA brings to the table?
 
You're far too crafty and wiley for me to keep up with..  Am I getting closer to the answer of the riddle you present??

 

[snapthis]

You got him. What took so long?

 
He came out a long time ago, MC. 😉

 

[Claxon]

He came out a long time ago, MC. 😉

When did you make me?

 

[AAviator]

We want DOH and a long fence with C and R, very simple, your protected unless you don't mind having over a thousand or so guys go ahead of you. There are so many westies that would love to have your seat since you don't seem to mind giving it up. I really hope this all works out but remember you guys fired the first shot at us.

In fairness I do realize this is your first merge, what happened in the past to the three for mentioned airlines was not a merge, especially TWA. Again I hope it works our in the end.

 

Second point, arbitrators look at what was brought into a merge AWA had nothing to offer in the merge is, ask them about Project Zanzibar and remember east turned over approximately 27% of our flying to them to show them profitable. OK so are you like Horner ex AWA or married to someone out there.


I think you are missing the boat, I say this being our sixth merge 99% of the east pilots respect DOH we do not want your jobs or big airplanes, hard to believe but true we should not bump any of you and your big planes should be for you guys, it's what you brought to this merge. That is what the east thinks the west on the other hand think they should get all you premium flying and go right to the top.

If you guys want to give away your slots, so be it, please let us all know on the board that is the APA's position to give away wide body jobs, seems to me then DOH would be easy, let's get it done.

luvthe9, I'm going to combine a couple of your statements.
 
In your first one, you state you want DOH.  Well, that means Chip Munn would be a solid block holing 777 Captain in a couple of bases.
 
In your next statement, you gripe about what was brought to the merger by AWA.  Did Chip Munn bring a 777 job to the table?  What job is he bringing?  Would DOH artificially thrust him into a higher earning seat?  Why should an AA pilot lose the seat because of that?
 
Your C & R and fence idea is just whitewash..  No way can a DOH integration be effectively done.  You hope to muddy the waters with thing like Project Zanzibar when USairways was about to implode as well.  Isn't that like two cadavers trying to out fart each other?
 
Just trying to identify why DOH is a must have for you.  In reality, I know why, but there's about zero chance of that happening.