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2014 Pilot Discussion

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nycbusdriver said:
 
Well, yes.  You advocated DOH for determining where the westie should sit.  I think that has been the whole point of the east arguement for the last 9 years.
 
Also, I have been maintaining that there would be no fences allowed between east and west former-LCC.  I can't imagine any arbitration panel trying to issue "protections" within LCC.  Their job would be to merge LCC and AAL, and protections between those two groups are to be expected.
I never advocated DOH.  i advocated seat and status as a basis.  You allowed EastUS1 slipping words into his response then agreeing with it.  Show me where I said that.
 
If a Westie can now hold a wide body seat on the NIC list, then he should be on the combined list.
 
A320 Driver said:
I don't think there is much chance of that...
I doubt seriously if they waste much time on it. They will probably take three lists, look at who is flying what, and decide from there based on the current paradigm.
I'm still trying to figure out the paradigm which USAPA created. There are no parallels in unionism.

Nothing gets accomplished......Nothing to show for it.

"Nobody told me there would be days like these...
Strange days indeed."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCy0tyBJKlw
 
A320 Driver said:
Agreed. Even with a slotting formula the first West pilots would not be plugged into the list until you have slotted all of the WB pilots on the East. And with the NIC lost, the formerly furloughed East pilots that NIC disenfranchised would be slotted in commensurate with their current positions, not the staple job NIC used. Fences wouldn't make any sense at this point. It's not DOH, but it would be consistent with last couple of arbitrations and it beats the NIC hands down.
You are agreeing with a statement that was never made.
 
luvthe9 said:
Traitor, you are by far the biggest scum and liar like your best friend Chippy on this board, you know my position show me one post where I said that.. I'll say it again DOH with C and R, and a nice long fence to protect the AA wide body jobs , we have no right to them, that's what they brought to this merge. If you can't keep up I suggest you get off this board.

Also remember we turned over about 27% of OUR flying to them, talk about saving jobs.
If you don't want the wide body jobs, then why date of hire?
 
traderjake said:
 
APA is not going to buy your DOH with "nice protections" lies but keep begging if you want.
 
Don't forget to remind the arbitration panel that Nicolau was a senile old man who got it wrong.
 
You should be embarrassed by the dumb stuff you post.
DOH is DOA. APA will never agree to that, period, end of story.  Dream on….  Well, maybe………...
 
Unless there's a 40 year fence, porous one way with APA access to any new equipment at any base (think A350), base lock, flying protections, and every system upgrade offered to AA pilots first for the next 39.5 years.
 
I guess this is the C and R luvthe9 had in mind?
 
snapthis said:
 
 
Keep in mind, you are talking with this guy. I'll introduce you to Courtney. Hired in 1999, furloughed after a couple of years, returning in 2007. Phoenix commuter who scored political points with former Usapian Prez, Mike Cleary. He sniffed around Phoenix, reporting back to the Fuhrer.
 
He has been banned from handing out pizza and Usapian propaganda to new hires at the Phoenix training facility.
 
So, you see him here, portraying West pilots as the wide-body grabbing pilots when in reality, it's the opportunist depicted here who's wide-body appetite is unsatisfied.
 
attachicon.gif
courtneyB.gif
 
Courtney Luv
Is that really his picture?
 
AAviator said:
Is that really his picture?
99.99% sure..Could be his more evil twin.... 😉

Charlotte rep, Courtney Borman.


June 27, 2011
I, COURTNEY BORMAN, declare that the following is true and correct:
1. I make this declaration of my own free will, based on my personal, firsthand
knowledge, unless otherwise specifically indicated.
2. This declaration is made in support of USAPAs opposition to the
Addington defendants motion for class certification.
3. I am currently a First Officer and have been employed by US Airways as
a Pilot since 1999, furloughed in 2002 and resumed again in 2007. I am currently a
member in good standing with USAPA.
4. I am currently the Chairman of the USAPA Furlough Committee"
 
algflyr said:
 
AA, I don't think you understand how the arbitration that produced the Nic list was structured and why it is no longer valid. Let me try to explain it in another way. Follow me for a minute and tell me what you think in a hypothetical scenario.
 
 
 
 
I'm with you so far.
 
 
 
 
 
Lets take the combination of AA and TWA. I'm gonna make-up a scenario that has similar circumstances. While this is not the way it went down, let's assume for this scenario that it did happen this way. Although the TWA pilots were not COMPLETELY stapled, I think it's close enough for everyone to realize they lost a LOT in the SLI with AA.
 
 
 
Well, the wheels are already coming off here because you are believing what someone has told you.  The TWA deal was an asset purchase.  TWA filed for bankruptcy and AA provided Debtor in possession financing.  Also referred to DIP financing.  TWA then went through the BK process and was essentially broken up into pieces.  AA purchased enough pieces in the auction to maintain the SLT hub.  TWA pilots had no airline to fly for at this point and a conditional job offer that was offered required them to waive their LPP's.  A significant portion of their fleet was disposed of, they got a huge raise, and then 9-11 hit.  Timing wasn't on their side..  Today, nothing resembling TWA is part of the AA network, to include the jets.  TWA pilots sued everyone they could and the SLI has stood the test of time and the courts.  The fact that you think they got a raw deal doesn't contribute to the premise or the argument you're about to present, different animal completely, but, I'm still with you.  
 
 
 
 
 
Let's say the AA-TWA SLI went to an arbitrator. The arbitrator ruled that the TWA pilots would get one of two things. 1. They would get straight DOH in the SLI provided TWA, within one year, could emerge from BK and show a profit, proving they were a viable business. If after that one year, they could NOT meet that requirement, they would 2, be stapled to the AA list.
 
 
 
You're really reaching here..  Has an arbitrator ever offered up a list that is a sliding scale?  I can't imagine that would ever happen due to the cost of administering that ruling.  The costs to the company would be enormous.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
So after one year goes by, TWA could NOT meet that requirement as set forth in the arbitration decision by exiting BK and showing a profit. Thus they would get the staple job (option 2) under the arbitration.
 
 
How does TWA fit into this again?  They had no cash left and their costs spiked when they came over to green book.
 
 
 
 
Would you argue that they should get straight DOH anyway, even though they did NOT meet the conditions of the arbitration that would allow them to have option 1? I mean if the arbitration decision had a specific condition that must be met in order to be implemented, but it wasn't met, do you think the APA would just give it to them anyway just to be nice? I'd be interested in your thoughts on this...
 
Not by a long shot.  I'll reserve further comment until you can produce an arbitration that has any type of sunshine/sunset methodology.  If I'm correct, you'll want to say, "hey, we're making money so just give us DOH?"
 
AAviator...just curious and have to ask.

Any rumors regarding how APA does intend to fulfill its DFR obligations to LCC pilots sans-USAPA? Do you see them APA acting as the umbrella organization overseeing and funding the separate and autonomous merger committees? I would assume this would be the easiest way to comply with its obligation to use MB procedures, avoid any DFR liability for APA and keep management from any interference by allowing them to also escape liability regarding the Nic.
 
snapthis said:
99.99% sure..Could be his more evil twin.... 😉

Charlotte rep, Courtney Borman.


June 27, 2011
I, COURTNEY BORMAN, declare that the following is true and correct:
1. I make this declaration of my own free will, based on my personal, firsthand
knowledge, unless otherwise specifically indicated.
2. This declaration is made in support of USAPAs opposition to the
Addington defendants motion for class certification.
3. I am currently a First Officer and have been employed by US Airways as
a Pilot since 1999, furloughed in 2002 and resumed again in 2007. I am currently a
member in good standing with USAPA.
4. I am currently the Chairman of the USAPA Furlough Committee"
Didn't someone say A320 Driver was a rep somewhere?
 
AAviator said:
Didn't someone say A320 Driver was a rep somewhere?
Never been a rep when we were ALPA or USAPA. I do go to the occasional BPR meeting to watch the follies, but that is about it. My blood pressure won't tolerate much more than that... 🙂
 
electricjet98 said:
AAviator...just curious and have to ask.

Any rumors regarding how APA does intend to fulfill its DFR obligations to LCC pilots sans-USAPA? Do you see them APA acting as the umbrella organization overseeing and funding the separate and autonomous merger committees? I would assume this would be the easiest way to comply with its obligation to use MB procedures, avoid any DFR liability for APA and keep management from any interference by allowing them to also escape liability regarding the Nic.
I'll respond, but let me ask you a question first.  Why did USAPA sue APA?
 
A320 Driver said:
Never been a rep when we were ALPA or USAPA. I do go to the occasional BPR meeting to watch the follies, but that is about it. My blood pressure won't tolerate much more than that... 🙂
Ok, cool.  Someone said somewhere along the line that a rep dropped in from time to time..  Sorry.   B)
 
snapthis said:
99.99% sure..Could be his more evil twin.... 😉
Charlotte rep, Courtney Borman.
June 27, 2011
I, COURTNEY BORMAN, declare that the following is true and correct:
1. I make this declaration of my own free will, based on my personal, firsthand
knowledge, unless otherwise specifically indicated.
2. This declaration is made in support of USAPAs opposition to the
Addington defendants motion for class certification.
3. I am currently a First Officer and have been employed by US Airways as
a Pilot since 1999, furloughed in 2002 and resumed again in 2007. I am currently a
member in good standing with USAPA.
4. I am currently the Chairman of the USAPA Furlough Committee"
It is that 00.01 that can really bite you hard.
 
snapthis said:
I'm still trying to figure out the paradigm which USAPA created. There are no parallels in unionism.

Nothing gets accomplished......Nothing to show for it.

"Nobody told me there would be days like these...
Strange days indeed."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCy0tyBJKlw
Never said USAPA created anything. But you have to start someplace and it won't be 2005.
 
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