2014 Pilot Discussion

[AAviator]

 
AA, I don't think you understand how the arbitration that produced the Nic list was structured and why it is no longer valid. Let me try to explain it in another way. Follow me for a minute and tell me what you think in a hypothetical scenario.
 
Lets take the combination of AA and TWA. I'm gonna make-up a scenario that has similar circumstances. While this is not the way it went down, let's assume for this scenario that it did happen this way. Although the TWA pilots were not COMPLETELY stapled, I think it's close enough for everyone to realize they lost a LOT in the SLI with AA.
 
Let's say the AA-TWA SLI went to an arbitrator. The arbitrator ruled that the TWA pilots would get one of two things. 1. They would get straight DOH in the SLI provided TWA, within one year, could emerge from BK and show a profit, proving they were a viable business. If after that one year, they could NOT meet that requirement, they would 2, be stapled to the AA list.
 
So after one year goes by, TWA could NOT meet that requirement as set forth in the arbitration decision by exiting BK and showing a profit. Thus they would get the staple job (option 2) under the arbitration.
 
Would you argue that they should get straight DOH anyway, even though they did NOT meet the conditions of the arbitration that would allow them to have option 1? I mean if the arbitration decision had a specific condition that must be met in order to be implemented, but it wasn't met, do you think the APA would just give it to them anyway just to be nice? I'd be interested in your thoughts on this...

You said that the arbitration occurred, per ALPA merger policy resulting in the NIC.  Apply the above bold and undefined statement…..
 
Now what two things have been offered to the AWA pilot groups, that would be a parallel to what you're trying to sell?
 
You've brought up performance benchmarks of some kind.
 
i don't have access to the documents you referenced, just the award.  What specifically did the award list as a bench mark, OTHER than the joint contract that UPAPA refused to negotiate?

 

[EastUS1]

So, I have answered your question along with documentation and references...

 
Expect only adolescent angst in response.
 
P.S. Hmm...I see that cautionary observation comes a bit too late: "OTHER than the joint contract that UPAPA refused to negotiate?" 😉

 

[Claxon]

 
Expect only adolescent angst in response.
 
P.S. Hmm...I see that cautionary observation comes a bit too late: "OTHER than the joint contract that UPAPA refused to negotiate?" 😉

Details, details. 
 
Other than the the fact that there was never a joint contract between west and East pilots,  DFR 1, 9th Circuit Court decision, DFR 2, the Declaratory Judgment and the McCaskill-Bond Amendment, which the American pilots want USAPA to waive protections.........;;;;;;;;
 
Why are you East pilots copping an attitude?

 

[Metroyet]

Details, details. 
 
Other than the the fact that there was never a joint contract between west and East pilots,  DFR 1, 9th Circuit Court decision, DFR 2, the Declaratory Judgment and the McCaskill-Bond amendment, which the American pilots want USAPA to waive.........;;;;;;;;
 
Why are you East pilots copping an attitude.

The APA isn't "asking" anything of USAPA. We all know your fake union is going to die soon and that will be the end of it. A Federal Judge weighed in on MB and she said your group was stupid to agree to SCS and a Single CBA prior to SLI. Everyone will be fairly represented. I know that idea is wholly repellent to you but it's true. There is zero percent chance that this is not going to binding arbitration. I'm sure you're anxiously awaiting whether or not an arbitration panel views their final and binding work to actually be final and binding. I'm not very hopefull you're going to enjoy this process.

 

[EastUS1]

The APA isn't "asking" anything of USAPA............Everyone will be fairly represented.

 
Prechill: "I'm sure the APA will be fair to us all."
 
Blanche Dubois: "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naive

 

[AAviator]

 
 
So, on page 6 of LOA 96 (paragraph IV.A), it says the East and West list will be combined according to ALPA merger policy. That was done. The product was the Nic award you posted a link to.
 
 
...
 
So, I have answered your question along with documentation and references... 

I cleaned it up for you a little. 
 
I'm sure the Arbitrator will get the NIC then, right?
 
If not, and if USAPA maintains it doesn't exist, where's the LCC pilot seniority list?  

 

[AAviator]

luvthe9,
You're up...
 
If it's gotta be DOH, why can the AA pilots keep the 777's and 767's but not the seniority numbers associated with those jobs we already have?
 
Can you explain how you "saved" my pension?
 
Can you shed more light on Project Zanzibar?  (I've found Jim's explanation over on Flyertalk)

 

[AAviator]

The APA isn't "asking" anything of USAPA. We all know your fake union is going to die soon and that will be the end of it. A Federal Judge weighed in on MB and she said your group was stupid to agree to SCS and a Single CBA prior to SLI. Everyone will be fairly represented. I know that idea is wholly repellent to you but it's true. There is zero percent chance that this is not going to binding arbitration. I'm sure you're anxiously awaiting whether or not an arbitration panel views their final and binding work to actually be final and binding. I'm not very hopefull you're going to enjoy this process.

APA isn't asking anyone to waive anything.  Get it right.

 

[Metroyet]

 
Prechill: "I'm sure the APA will be fair to us all."
 
Blanche Dubois: "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
 
Dorothy Gale: "There's no place like home. There's no place like home."
 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naive

I have infinately more faith in the APA to respect their DFR than anything USAPA.
 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/complete
 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite

 

[EastUS1]

algflyr, on 11 Mar 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:So, I have answered your question along with documentation and references...
 
EastUS1: Expect only adolescent angst in response.
 

I cleaned it up for you a little. 

 
My mistake. I'd earlier ommitted smarmy, as properly prefacing adolescent angst in response. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

I have infinately more faith in the APA respect their DFR than anything USAPA.

 
Well, it's said that faith's a fine thing, and an infinite amount even more so, I'd imagine. 😉 First explain that to the Air Cal/TWA/Reno people, then kindly expand on exactly what basis anyone should reasonably have any such faith, and good luck to all here.

 

[Metroyet]

Well, it's said that faith's a fine thing, and an infinite amount even more so, I'd imagine. 😉 First explain that to the Air Cal/TWA/Reno people, then kindly expand on exactly what basis anyone should reasonably have any such faith, and good luck to all here.

The basis for such faith is the indisputable fact that USAPA has been a horrific failure to those they claimed to represent. I think losing over a billion dollars for your membership for a few hundred upgrades speaks for itself. Nic gave 2 out of 3 upgrades to the East. You demanded 3 out of 3. That decision cost dearly.

The APA isn't driven by pure uncut emotion and hatred like USAPA. That's obvious.

 

[Claxon]

Arbitration, real arbitration not in house union with alpa pilot ""neutrals"", will solve this dispute once and for all.  This process will take about two years, relax.

 

[Phoenix]

We all miss UHaul... But when he left we were consoled by the arrival of DCA319 (an "objective "East pilot" obsessed with proving the Nic was reasonable.

We all miss DCA 319.... But when he left we were consoled with the arrival of AAviator (an "objective AA pilot" obsessed with proving the Nic is reasonable.

We all will miss AAviator... But when he leaves we will be consoled by the arrival of JustaGirlScout (an "objective Girl Scout" obsessed with proving the Nic is reasonable.

 

[electricjet98]

Well, it's said that faith's a fine thing, and an infinite amount even more so, I'd imagine. 😉 First explain that to the Air Cal/TWA/Reno people, then kindly expand on exactly what basis anyone should reasonably have any such faith, and good luck to all here.

You keep posting baseless allegations Mr. Dale, but refuse (or are incapable) to answer...what Duty of Fair Representation was APA obligated to those pilots, prior to those pilots being legally represented by APA?