2014 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

Still won't provide the names of the "arbitrations".

 
United  Continental
 
Delta  Northwest
 
Frontier  Republic
 
USAirways  America West
 
USAirways Trump Shuttle
 
Make that 5 arbitrations that did not go DOH/LOS. 

 

[Freighterguynow]

United  Continental
 
Delta  Northwest
 
Frontier  Republic
 
USAirways  America West

Frontier was a straight 3 to 1 ratio based upon the size of the respective groups - no weight given to equipment or status.

Atlas Polar went DOH for the first pilot on each list then same ratio except for the F/E's who were stripped off the seniority list, ratio'd then reinserted at the bottom.

United got furloughed pilots above active Continental

 

[Zone5]

A 7 year Captain position is worth more than a 17 year F/O position on the same category airplane.

So, your definition of "worth" is seat and aircraft specific! Referring to the latest West list (Jan 2013) #609, an A320 F/O, is not "worth" as much as #610, an A320 Captain, is that what you are saying? How about #623, a 757 F/O, is somehow "junior" to #624, an A320 Captain?

Even you, have to realize how utterly preposterous your "logic" is.


seajay

 

[traderjake]

 

So, your definition of "worth" is seat and aircraft specific! Referring to the latest West list (Jan 2013) #609, an A320 F/O, is not "worth" as much as #610, an A320 Captain, is that what you are saying? How about #623, a 757 F/O, is somehow "junior" to #624, an A320 Captain?

Even you, have to realize how utterly preposterous your "logic" is.
 

 

Not everyone bids the highest position their seniority can hold.

 
Even you should realize that.

 

[EastUS1]

Res Judicata, on 09 Apr 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:....The APA can't kill you fking idiots off fast enough.

You are a nutjob.  GFYS SCAB!

 
That one line alone: "...can't kill you fking idiots off fast enough." would be worth a full psych eval in most workplaces, and to think that anyone trusts that sad case to fly pasenger-laden aircraft around is nothing short of amazing.

 

[Zone5]

Not everyone bids the highest position their seniority can hold.

 
Even you should realize that.

Exactly my point. Seniority is the order in which each individual pilot gets to select from the options available when it's their turn to do so.

To presume that your definition of "worth" is somehow a universal fact, like say gravity, is mighty impertinent of you.

The choices made by individual pilots are highly subjective and personal and do not lend themselves well to the definition of "worth" that you happen to believe in.

You may think that just because I would rather be block holding F/O on the 330 than reserve A320 captain, that I am somehow not worthy, but I happen to disagree with you and I am NOT junior to that A320 Captain either.


seajay

 

[EastUS1]

traderjake: A 7 year Captain position is worth more than a 17 year F/O position on the same category airplane.

Not everyone bids the highest position their seniority can hold.

 
At least one of us is seriously confused here. Nothing you've yet advanced as supposed "logic", in any way counters Zone5's arguments. You contradict yourself more with every post. If there's any primal "logic" to be found in your issuings...well...you've kept it very well hidden.

 

[end_of_alpa]

United  Continental
 
Delta  Northwest
 
Frontier  Republic
 
USAirways  America West
 
USAirways Trump Shuttle
 
Make that 5 arbitrations that did not go DOH/LOS.

Four of those five was ALPA merger policy and we're not under the M-B Allegheny-Mohawk. Frontier is spun off as we speak and their latest M-B integration has been undone.n you can read the latest on it from the NMB.

In trump Nicolau actually GAVE to ALL shuttle SOME credit for LOS.

The LOS spread in United Continental and Delta Northwest were not NEAR as sever as it was for us.

In any case then APA should go underneath US Aiways pilots because we weren't in BK and they would have furloughed pilots under Hortons POR.

But you keep spinning Dan.

 

[EastUS1]

I am impressed at your clairvoyance of the future posters... who knew that the UTC Fudster himself would be along to provide the usual chuckles.  YOU DID!  What stock should I buy?!

 
It was merely a fortunate whim of fate. Who could then know the chipmunk would immediately be along to wave whatever the largest White Flag he could currently carry, while affording us another chorus of "the sky is falling!", yet again? 😉

 

[end_of_alpa]

Res Judicata, on 09 Apr 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:....The APA can't kill you fking idiots off fast enough.

 
That one line alone: "...can't kill you fking idiots off fast enough." would be worth a full psych eval in most workplaces, and to think that anyone trusts that sad case to fly pasenger-laden aircraft around is nothing short of amazing.

How true.

 

[traderjake]

But you keep spinning Dan.

 
Which one of those arbitions was DOH/LOS the dominant factor in the integration? 
 
Keep digging that hole you're in.

 

[traderjake]

At least one of us is seriously confused here.

 
Trust me, it's you. 😀

 

[end_of_alpa]

Which one of those arbitions was DOH/LOS the dominant factor in the integration? 
 
Keep digging that hole you're in.

I believe United Continental

 

[traderjake]

I believe United Continental

 
Not true.
 
That one was 65% equipment and status, 35% LOS.

 

[luvthe9]

Res Judicata, on 09 Apr 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:....The APA can't kill you fking idiots off fast enough.

 
That one line alone: "...can't kill you fking idiots off fast enough." would be worth a full psych eval in most workplaces, and to think that anyone trusts that sad case to fly pasenger-laden aircraft around is nothing short of amazing.

.

Polygraph Statement of Mr. Mark C. Doyal

I had always wanted to be an FBI agent. With that singular goal in mind, I enrolled in Southwest Texas State University in the fall of 1988. My major was Law Enforcement with a minor in Economics. I graduated in December 1990 and I took the written FBI exam that next January. I passed and was scheduled for an interview in March of 1991. The interview went great and I achieved a perfect score. However, the FBI determined that I needed more experience and informed me to re-apply in two years. I immediately took the Law School Admissions Test and applied to South Texas College of Law in Houston, Texas. I was excepted for the class beginning in January 1991. I was fortunate in that I was able to obtain employment on a full time basis with the Harris County District Attorney's Office - Economic Crime Division. I remember my new boss asking me after he interviewed me what I planned on achieving with a law career. I immediately responded that I wanted a career with the FBI. Everyone who I met knew that that was my goal.

Working full time for the District Attorney while attending law school at night was tough, but I knew I had to get the right kind of experience and education to make myself the best possible candidate for the FBI. Upon graduation from law school (Dec. 1994), I re-applied with the FBI. I was scheduled to take the written exam on a Monday following the Bar exam. I again passed the written exam and had to wait to be selected for the interview. I wrote letters nearly every month to the applicant coordinator asking to be interviewed and explaining what I was doing each month. Finally, I was selected to be interviewed in Kansas City in July of 1996. Seven of us in our region were selected to go, but only two of us passed the interview process. Myself and another girl. I was on top of the world, knowing that I was about to realize my dream.

The polygraph exam was next, August 7, 1996, in San Antonio, Texas. I knew I had nothing to worry about, since I had never violated the FBI's drug policy and I had not lied on my application. The agent administering the polygraph noted during the pre- polygraph interview that I had attended a university that he believed was a "party school" and that I needed to tell him what drugs I used when I went there. I stated that I had taken none, that I didn't live on campus, I lived in another city, and that I was an older student and wasn't influenced to do such things. He repeated that that couldnít be the case and told me again to tell him what illegal drugs I had done. I countered again that that just wasn't the case and that I was telling the truth. This went back and forth for about 10 minutes and he seemed to be getting upset that I wouldnít admit to taking drugs. Finally he stated that if I was lying he was about to find out. I was upset at the unbelievable accusations he was making. Up until that point I had been treated with the utmost professionalism by the FBI staff, now I was being treated like an accused criminal. After the polygraph was over, he told me I had failed. I almost passed out in disbelief

I wrote several letters to FBI Director Freeh, and in October of 1996 I was polygraphed again, by another agent with the first agent who polygraphed me present. The results were the same, he told me I had failed. I just could not believe it. I had not lied on the polygraph. Even the first agent that had polygraphed me told me as I was leaving that he now believed me, that I was telling the truth. I wrote the Director several more times to no avail, my application was terminated in November of that year. My dreams were shattered.

Finally, as a side note, I later applied with the Secret Service. I did just as well in the testing and interview stages as I had with the FBI. When it came time for the polygraph, the agent administering it asked me if I had been polygraphed before. I told him yes, and under what circumstances and the results. He thanked me for my honesty, unhooked me from the polygraph without testing me and told me that he would have to contact his superiors for their advice. I could not believe it. Two months later I received a form letter stating that I was no longer competitive with the other agent applicants. I am a licensed attorney, professional pilot, have law enforcement experience and with top scores but I was not competitive? Obviously I had been "black balled" by the erroneous polygraph results from the FBI.

I will probably always be effected by the injustice of what happened. I wrote a final letter to Director Freeh this summer asking for another polygraph. I even offered to pay all expenses associated with retaking it if I were to fail. I guess I still haven't accepted that you can fail a polygraph while telling the truth. Or the fact that the FBI could make this kind of mistake. I had always looked up to that agency as the pinnacle of professionalism. I received the same form letter back that I had received almost two years earlier. It is a shame, since all I wanted to do was to have a chance to serve my country and make my family proud.



Sincerely,



Mark C. Doyal