2014 Pilot Discussion

[Freighterguynow]

The webboard prison beatch. Trade him to the West for a pack of smokes so he can go suck it over there till they get tired of him.

 

[traderjake]

He should have stayed fired, he never thanked Mike and Tracy for getting his job back.

 
So that's Tracy's one and only accomplishment? 

 

[USA320Pilot]

With USAPA refusing to APA and AAG's desire for a 3-way ISL arbitration USAPA is trying a desperate Hail Mary pass with its filing with the NMB and their lawsuit filed in the Court of the District of Columbia. The NMB filing asks the Board to set aside the MOU's arbitration provision, which would allow USAPA to violate the MOU. How likely is it the NMB will rule in USAPA's favor?
 
USAPA's M-B lawsuit created a counter suit by APA and AAG that the strategic partners filed against USAPA. USAPA is asking the D.C. Court to set aside Judge Silver's order that following SCC USAPA must cease all SLI work. USAPA's challenge is that it's argument is unsupportable because Pat Szymanski successfully and correctly argued a segment of a union cannot negotiate seniority per the RLA. Now USAPA has changed its position as predicted by Judge Silver and has placed the US Airways pilot's seniority at serious risk.
 
If the NMB rules against USAPA's position, the Court dismisses USAPA's claim, and USAPA does not re-engage APA and AAG in Protocol agreement discussions that result in a 3-way arbitration, following SCC, APA will have the legal right to determine the APA-USAPA ISL. This could legally create another AA-TWA type result with the Nicolau Award the starting point for the New American pilot's ISL.
 
How ironic it would be fort the East pilots to beg for Nicolau Award to be their M-B starting point and a seat at the arbitration table instead of being virtually stapled to the bottom of the new SL like USAPA is attempting to do to the West pilots.
 
In my opinion, if USAPA does not agree to a 3-way M-B arbitration prior to SCC, withdraws its NMB request and M-B lawsuit, the closest USAPA might get to the ISL process is to quickly apply for a position as a Dominos driver so USAPA can deliver pizza and diet coke to APA's BOD's members at APA's WWHQs. Maybe APA's BOD will give USAPA's drivers a tip for their efforts that result in US Airways' pilots stapled to the bottom of the seniority list because USAPA once again bargained in bad faith and does not honor its contracts.
 
Maybe by playing with fire USAPA's zealots will not only get burned, but they will badly burn about 5,000 pilots. How ironic would that be?        

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA's zealots have argued for a "Nic Do Over" for years. Now that one is available USAPA is placing everybody's seniority at risk by doing everything possible to prevent the West pilots from having a seat at the M-B table.
 
By agreeing to APA and AAG's desire for a 3-way arbitration USAPA can argue why the Nic is so unfair, why DOH is the gold standard, and keep the Nic on the shelf. Is that not what USAPA's zealots desire?  

 

[end_of_alpa]

Is USAPA's Protocol Agreement Approach Playing With Fire?
 
Before I offer my suggestions on how USAPA can get itself out of this potentially devastating Phyrric problem, let me discuss a few other points. Why? I believe USAPA is once again not being transparent, they’re being dishonest, and they have placed our SLI at risk of being an AA-TWA type of integration many pilots rightfully fear.[/size]Fact #1: According to AAG, “The parties mutually agreed to extend the deadline for negotiation of a Protocol Agreement until February 18, 2014.”[/size]Fact #2: According to AAG, “Despite the exchange of various proposals between the parties, an agreement could not be reached on a Protocol Agreement by the February 18 deadline.”[/size]Fact #3: According to APA, “APA further asserts that, as of the date of Mr. Jones’ email, the parties had reached agreement on “a method for arbitrator selection.”[/size]Fact #4: “On February 20, 2014, USAPA President Captain Gary Hummel sent a letter to NMB Chief of Staff Daniel Rainey, at his office in Washington, D.C., requesting a list of seven arbitrators pursuant to Section 13(a) of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs and the McCaskill-Bond Amendment.”[/size]Chip’s comments: It is very likely from the time line above USAPA had no intent of reaching a Protocol Agreement with APA and AAG because shortly after USAPA pulled out of Protocol Agreement talks the union filed its request with the NMB and then filed its next lawsuit in District Court. [/size]Questions #1: How come USAPA has not provided the pilots the “various proposals” for the Protocol Agreement? Where is the transparency? Why is USAPA not providing the pilots basic information on the M-B ground rules? Why is USAPA not providing us all of the information, again?[/size]Question #2: USAPA was negotiating with APA and AAG on the Protocol Agreement and according to APA “as of the date of (AAG attorney) Mr. Jones’ email, the parties had reached agreement on a method for arbitrator selection.” Why did USAPA renege on a method of arbitrator selection and then submit its request for a single arbitrator arbitration before SCC, which clearly violates USAPA’s contract, the RLA, and contract law, again? [/size]Conclusion: It is highly likely that during Protocol Agreement discussions USAPA had no intention of reaching a Protocol Agreement. And, the union is playing with fire because if the union’s NMB request is denied and USAPA’s complaint filed in the Court for the District of Columbia is denied or USAPA loses the case -- APA will have total control of the ISL process. This All or Nothing approach could produce another AA-TWA type of ISL result. [/size]Furthermore, why has USAPA taken this approach and is not telling the pilots all of the facts? I believe APA and AAG have made it perfectly clear they will not proceed with a 2-way M-B ISL arbitration because of AOL’s DFR and liability threat. USAPA is doing everything it can to prevent the West pilots from having their own seat at the M-B ISL arbitration table. This approach; along with Pat Szymanski’s testimony in Judge Silver’s court, has placed US Airways’ pilots at serious risk of APA deciding the US Airways pilot’s ISL future after SCC where USAPA could be left being a pizza delivery man, if it wants to get close to any ISL activity.[/size]Therefore, I strongly believe it’s in the best interests of all US Airways pilots, East and West, to obtain a seats at the M-B arbitration table, to obtain a F&E arbitration result. To do so USAPA should inform the NMB it agrees to participate in the M-B with the arbitration and dispute arbitrator selection method previously agreed to in the MOU and the union will then withdraw its M-B lawsuit filed in the Court of the District of Columbia.[/size]In exchange for these actions I believe USAPA should propose to both APA and AAG to re-write two sections of APA’s January 17, 2014 Draft Protocol Agreement. My recommended changes are: [/size]Revision 1 - Paragraph 2.A.: “Effective on or after the date the NMB determines the representation of the combined pilot class and craft of the New American, the Organization, if any, designated by the NMB, as the duly designated representative of the combined class and craft (“the Organization”), shall recognize and support three Merger Committees (MC), APA MC, Legacy US Airways East Pilot MC, and US Airways West Pilot MC, as are required to independently with autonomously represent, for seniority integration purposes, the pilots of the pre-merger seniority lists as independently described by each of the three MC’s in the combined class and craft. Consistent with the MOU, this Protocol Agreement, the duty of fair representation, and the Organization’s other legal obligations, the Organization shall delegate to such Merger Committees authority to act for and on the behalf of the pilots on their respective pre-merger seniority lists for purposes of concluding an integrated seniority list. Once designated, each MC shall fill its own vacancies, select their own merger counsel, and maintain all rights and responsibilities as an autonomous committee.” [/size]Revision 2 – Paragraph 18: “One half of the $4 million provided for in paragraph 7 of the MOU shall be allocated for reimbursement of expenses incurred by the Merger Committee of representing the American pilots, and one half incurred by the Merger Committee(s) Representing the US Airways pilots (notice there are multiple merger committees to receive money from AAG). USAPA is further permitted, from its own treasury, to equally fund both the legacy US Airways East and US Airways West Merger Committees as decided by the BPR prior to SCC.[/size]In conclusion, is USAPA’s efforts to prevent the West pilots from having their own seat at the M-B table, which is an “All or Nothing” approach that could produce another AA-TWA type of ISL result, worth the risk of Judge Silver’s “Phyrric victory” coming to fruition? And, for years USAPA’s zealots have cried and demanded a “Nic-Do-Over.” But, what when presented with that opportunity the brilliant minds located at USAPA’s WWHQs have said “no.” Once again, is USAPA playing with fire and opening the door for APA to decide the US Airways pilot’s placement on the New American’s ISL with the start of the staple job the implementation of the Nicolau Award?[/size]

Not worthy of any response to this tripe.

 

[end_of_alpa]

USAPA's zealots have argued for a "Nic Do Over" for years. Now that one is available USAPA is placing everybody's seniority at risk by doing everything possible to prevent the West pilots from having a seat at the M-B table.
 
By agreeing to APA and AAG's desire for a 3-way arbitration USAPA can argue why the Nic is so unfair, why DOH is the gold standard, and keep the Nic on the shelf. Is that not what USAPA's zealots desire?

You don't even know what you're talking about.

 

[Pi brat]

 
 
How ironic it would be fort the East pilots to beg for Nicolau Award to be their M-B starting point and a seat at the arbitration table instead of being virtually stapled to the bottom of the new SL like USAPA is attempting to do to the West pilots.
 

What is ironic is for you, one of the first diehard USAPA supporters, to be talking about...irony.
 
 
"USA320Pilot
Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:32 AM


Veteran
 



I find it interesting the Federal Courts permitted United to re-order the pilot seniority list after ALPA sued and won the case, but some of the normal "pilot haters" and USAviation.com "naysayers" say it cannot be done in the US Airways-America West pilot seniority integration dispute.

One thing is certain. We will all get to see the Court rule on the US Airways-America West pilot seniority issue because USAPA will become the new bargaining agent for both the East and West pilots in early 2008. With the exact number of cards required to hold an election known in a couple of week's after the last furlough recall class is held, the USAPA uncertainty of the number of votes needed to hold an election will finally be known.

At that point AWA320 and Junebug's ALPA positions will be available to them for about more 90 days and then they will need USAPA approval to hold a union position.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Regards,

USA320Pilot"

 

[Pi brat]

USAPA's zealots have argued for a "Nic Do Over" for years. Now that one is available USAPA is placing everybody's seniority at risk by doing everything possible to prevent the West pilots from having a seat at the M-B table.
 
By agreeing to APA and AAG's desire for a 3-way arbitration USAPA can argue why the Nic is so unfair, why DOH is the gold standard, and keep the Nic on the shelf. Is that not what USAPA's zealots desire?  

Like you? See above.
 
If I'd written what you have, I'd just shut up.

 

[Black Swan]

Like you? See above.
 
If I'd written what you have, I'd just shut up.

Touché

 

[end_of_alpa]

What is ironic is for you, one of the first diehard USAPA supporters, to be talking about...irony.
 
 
"USA320Pilot
Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:32 AM


Veteran
 



I find it interesting the Federal Courts permitted United to re-order the pilot seniority list after ALPA sued and won the case, but some of the normal "pilot haters" and USAviation.com "naysayers" say it cannot be done in the US Airways-America West pilot seniority integration dispute.
One thing is certain. We will all get to see the Court rule on the US Airways-America West pilot seniority issue because USAPA will become the new bargaining agent for both the East and West pilots in early 2008. With the exact number of cards required to hold an election known in a couple of week's after the last furlough recall class is held, the USAPA uncertainty of the number of votes needed to hold an election will finally be known.
At that point AWA320 and Junebug's ALPA positions will be available to them for about more 90 days and then they will need USAPA approval to hold a union position.
Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc
Regards,
USA320Pilot"

Still crazy after all these years.....

 

[767one]

Like you? See above.
 
If I'd written what you have, I'd just shut up.

It's not possible for him to shut up. He's 25 KHZ off frequency and he can only send and doesn't receive.

 

[767one]

 
 
I no longer have the interest in reading his predictions or "logic".  Years ago it was somewhat intriguing but even then he never stuck around to provide a follow up to obvious misrepresentations and lies.  
 
His most famous axiom that I ever read was "Fake it till ya make it."  At least he is good at trying.  If he ever makes it we are gonna be wowed.. unless of course he merely runs in front of a mob then declares himself a leader (again).   😀
 
It's very scientific. He just starts with the conclusion he wants and works backward finding the "data" to support his conclusion.

 

[767one]

Not worthy of any response to this tripe.

Pretty much like the sales calls that come at dinner time even though you are on the no call list. I just pick up the phone say hi and then set the phone down for a bit, usually in front of the TV speakers...sooner or later they give up but I don't think CM will. He is like the energizer bunny of doom!

 

[cltrat]

 
What is ironic is for you, one of the first diehard USAPA supporters, to be talking about...irony.
 
 
"USA320Pilot
Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:32 AM


Veteran
 



I find it interesting the Federal Courts permitted United to re-order the pilot seniority list after ALPA sued and won the case, but some of the normal "pilot haters" and USAviation.com "naysayers" say it cannot be done in the US Airways-America West pilot seniority integration dispute.

One thing is certain. We will all get to see the Court rule on the US Airways-America West pilot seniority issue because USAPA will become the new bargaining agent for both the East and West pilots in early 2008. With the exact number of cards required to hold an election known in a couple of week's after the last furlough recall class is held, the USAPA uncertainty of the number of votes needed to hold an election will finally be known.

At that point AWA320 and Junebug's ALPA positions will be available to them for about more 90 days and then they will need USAPA approval to hold a union position.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Regards,

USA320Pilot"

 

ouch  that's gonna leave a mark...lol

 

[nevergiveup]

Why does a Captain make more than a F/O on the same airplane?

scared to answer my question?