2014 Pilot Discussion

[Zone5]

scared to answer my question?

 
Captains gets paid more on the same equipment because they are the ultimate on scene arbiters and responsible party regarding the safe operation of the aircraft,  A position of awesome responsibility and is paid accordingly.
 
Now that we (presumably) agree on why Captains are paid more on a specific aircraft, would you agree that being a Captain does not necessarily make him or her "senior" to other pilots on the system list (either list) nor does it necessarily mean that they make more money than other Non-Captain pilots throughout the system or that they "magically" have more LOS.
 
Do you think that a reserve 190 Captain on the East should be considered "senior" to the number one 757 F/O on the West?  If you do, I would like to hear you explain that position in the PHX crew lounge!
 
 
seajay

 

[traderjake]

scared to answer my question?

 
That is the answer.
 
Too stupid to figure it out?

 

[traderjake]

Do you think that a reserve 190 Captain on the East should be considered "senior" to the number one 757 F/O on the West?  If you do, I would like to hear you explain that position in the PHX crew lounge!

 
IMO the E190 Captain positions should pay more and be senior to the WB F/O positions.  

 

[EastUS1]

 
IMO the E190 Captain positions should pay more and be senior to the WB F/O positions.  

 
So then; should a newly hired, first year 190 Captain now be made senior to you for all time, or only if they make more than you? Should a person's entire career be forever-after based on hourly pay rates at any given moment there's some magical "snapshot" taken? Should all currently holding Captain be made forever senior to all others? Is there some perfectly logical bias that can be applied here that you can suggest? Aw heck; why not just use astrological signs, omens and mystical portents? 😉
 
"Should" is an interesting word, especially as you used it above. Should an arbitration panel agree with your notions of the 190 Captains being placed senior to yourself and all FO's, both east and west and everywhere, while not concerning themselves with the current pay; should you consider that perfectly fair and fully reasonable? If not...Why not?

 

[Zone5]

 
IMO the E190 Captain positions should pay more and be senior to the WB F/O positions.  

 
I agree, however, even if they were paid more, it would not necessarily make them more "senior".  I'm not sure I would bid it unless it paid considerably more.  Have you looked at the 190 trips? Three and four days, four to five legs a day, short over nights at the airport Days Inn, all the while playing "unpaid" line instructor to new hire pilots, while exposing yourself (and your ticket) to LOTS of opportunities for filling out NASA reports!
 
 
seajay

 

[algflyr]

If the 190 paid what it should and be in line with the other pay rates on other equipment, you would find the 190 Captain much more senior. You certainly wouldn't see first year pilots in the left seat.
 
And that's going to be one of the issues in the SLI with American. With their up or out policy at American, I think you will find a narrow line between their Captains and FO's on their seniority list. That's nowhere near the case with our list. We have very senior FO's on every airplane that can hold Captain slots (some very senior Captain slots) on multiple aircraft. I don't envy the job of trying to merge the lists. I just hope it's sooner rather than later so we can finally get this whole mess behind us. I would think the NMB has to be close to a decision...

 

[traderjake]

 
I agree, however, even if they were paid more, it would not necessarily make them more "senior". 

 
In a category and status SLI the E190 Captain "positions" should be senior to the WB F/O "positions".

 

[Phoenix]

The only reason to invent complicated majic and mirrors is to distract from the real motive that drives one away from accepting an objective, unbiased standard. If it just so happens an unbiased, objective standard appears to be in one's own favor it isn't possible to prove you don't share the same nefarious motives of the magicians.. Especially if the magicians implicitly assume you do.

All in all it's still just a difference of opinion, and only one is based on an implicit assumption.

 

[traderjake]

One size does not fit all.
 
You're getting dangerously close to EastUS1 territory with that paragraph.

 

[traderjake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM
 
Grammar Nazi

 

[EastUS1]

tradrjake: IMO the E190 Captain positions should pay more and be senior to the WB F/O positions.
 
In a category and status SLI the E190 Captain "positions" should be senior to the WB F/O "positions".

One size does not fit all.
 
You're getting dangerously close to EastUS1 territory with that paragraph.

 
While all you're doing is babbling incoherently. Exactly what does "one size does not fit all" mean here, and why can't you answer even the simplest of questions to support your supposed "logic"? 😉

 

[Phoenix]

tradrjake: IMO the E190 Captain positions should pay more and be senior to the WB F/O positions.
 
In a category and status SLI the E190 Captain "positions" should be senior to the WB F/O "positions".

 
While all you're doing is babbling incoherently. Exactly what does "one size does not fit all" mean here, and why can't you answer even the simplest of questions to support your supposed "logic"? 😉

It's very, vwery complicated. Be very, vwery quiet when hunting wabbits.

 

[traderjake]

USAPA's position is very, very simple.

 

[traderjake]

Exactly what does "one size does not fit all" mean here...

 
Although there are similarities this confirms my long held suscipion that that language you're speaking is not really English.

 

[Beancounter]

USAPA's position is very, very simple.

That's funny, I thought that was their response after realizing that by trying to gag the west they may have lost their voice (as a union) in the SLI. Even if they sudenly decided to play nice and represent the west, it's probably too late. The hard liners in the APA are already salivating over USAPA's missteps. I hope USAPA tacks and changes course, but like I said it's probably too late.

Bean