2014 Pilot Discussion
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snapthis
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Come to think of it let's throw em all out and start over.Beancounter said:
East-West, GOP, DEM we are kinda dysfunctional fraternity here. Just look what happened to flyboi, he got paddled and thumped off the table like most pests.
West pilots, you need to fire your coach and assistants.
Listen at 3:45 into the video for fergie and koontz scabs accusing East pilots of slowing down and how proud they were of the west operation running so smoothly. Parker played you scabs like a fine violin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV28fH7H09A&feature=youtu.be
Listen at 3:45 into the video for fergie and koontz scabs accusing East pilots of slowing down and how proud they were of the west operation running so smoothly. Parker played you scabs like a fine violin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV28fH7H09A&feature=youtu.be
luvthe9
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Where is our little cupcake, PreChill?snapthis said:Come to think of it let's throw em all out and start over.
East-West, GOP, DEM we are kinda dysfunctional fraternity here. Just look what happened to flyboi, he got paddled and thumped off the table like most pests.
luvthe9 said:
I'd think so, since most are honestly worthy of a clinical case study of Arrested Development. "You know why I hate you guys!?....I hate all of you'se!", "knights" who've fought "many battles" with supposed "valor", even "dire wolves" and "Larry Potta", not to even dwell more on the whole "heroic", umm..."spartan", supposed "soldiers" in some "army" fantasies. I'd never, in all of my prior life, expected any such infantile nonsense from supposed "professionals" of ANY order, as even being possible....Just goes to show how little I really knew of human psychology. It's truly been an educational process here.
Black Swan
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So these two are the founders of Leonidas LLC. At the time it must have seemed like a smart move. Leonidas completely misunderstood the RLA and especially ripeness with respect to contractual law. As a result of two misguided Addington suits, the East and West pilots remain on separate lists. Since 2005. This MOU and it's pay rates on the 330, as well as the April bid upgrades- are going to easily reverse roles Koontz spoke of, effectively making a LOA 93 pay reversal on the West.Claxon said:
Ironic.
"Former America West Pilots; read the Leonidas update! It's not even close to being over and it shows just how incompetent USAPA is."
"Tony Anger @TBonetheBiker 11 Jan
For USAPA http://fb.me/2YLJDXag3
"Once again the scabs at USAPA are running around high fiving each other but we have great lawyers at Leonidas and we are well funded...I know we will win this on appeal. The AWA group and the great work our management and employees have done, not only brought us back from the brink but we saved the scabs jobs, and our fellow pilots at AA...this is the judges ruling and it is obvious to anyone with a brain that she was punting the football to a bigger court;
A group of pilots formerly employed by America West Airlines, Inc., and their new
union, have a long-standing disagreement regarding pilot seniority. Unfortunately, there is
no perfect solution to that disagreement. The Court finds the former America West pilots
have not established the new union breached its duty of fair representation. In addition, the
former America West pilots are not entitled to participate in the upcoming statutory
procedure required for the integration of the US Airways and American Airline pilots.
Accordingly,
IT IS ORDERED the Motion for Preliminary Injunction (Doc. 13) is DENIED AS
MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motions for Summary Judgment (Docs. 211, 212)
are DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion for Directed Verdict (Doc. 239) is
DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Include Declaration of Gary Hummel
(Doc. 256) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 257) is GRANTED IN
PART AND DENIED IN PART. Mr. Hummel’s declaration, and the portions of
subsequent filings that cite to it, are STRICKEN but it is not necessary to strike USAPA’s
motion (Doc. 256).
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 283) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion For Injunction (Doc. 297) is DENIED AS
MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court is directed to enter judgment in
favor of Defendant US Airline Pilots Association on Count I and Count IV, a judgment in
favor of US Airways, Inc. on Count II, and a judgment of dismissal without prejudice on
Count III."
DATED this 10th day of January, 2014.
"Tony Anger @TBonetheBiker 11 Jan
For USAPA http://fb.me/2YLJDXag3
"Once again the scabs at USAPA are running around high fiving each other but we have great lawyers at Leonidas and we are well funded...I know we will win this on appeal. The AWA group and the great work our management and employees have done, not only brought us back from the brink but we saved the scabs jobs, and our fellow pilots at AA...this is the judges ruling and it is obvious to anyone with a brain that she was punting the football to a bigger court;
A group of pilots formerly employed by America West Airlines, Inc., and their new
union, have a long-standing disagreement regarding pilot seniority. Unfortunately, there is
no perfect solution to that disagreement. The Court finds the former America West pilots
have not established the new union breached its duty of fair representation. In addition, the
former America West pilots are not entitled to participate in the upcoming statutory
procedure required for the integration of the US Airways and American Airline pilots.
Accordingly,
IT IS ORDERED the Motion for Preliminary Injunction (Doc. 13) is DENIED AS
MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motions for Summary Judgment (Docs. 211, 212)
are DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion for Directed Verdict (Doc. 239) is
DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Include Declaration of Gary Hummel
(Doc. 256) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 257) is GRANTED IN
PART AND DENIED IN PART. Mr. Hummel’s declaration, and the portions of
subsequent filings that cite to it, are STRICKEN but it is not necessary to strike USAPA’s
motion (Doc. 256).
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 283) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion For Injunction (Doc. 297) is DENIED AS
MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court is directed to enter judgment in
favor of Defendant US Airline Pilots Association on Count I and Count IV, a judgment in
favor of US Airways, Inc. on Count II, and a judgment of dismissal without prejudice on
Count III."
DATED this 10th day of January, 2014.
Tanya Pearce, Mary Woods Lotter, Kristie Putnam Lockwood and 9 others like this.
Kara Braxton So what does that mean? More fighting?
January 10 at 6:35pm
James T Wren The wisest thing we can ALL do at this point is stay cool and fly safely. We can control our jets and ourselves.....little else. My two cents....
January 10 at 6:54pm via mobile · 8
Nick Sites You know it is so immature and childish to me as to why they have to be a bunch of whiners simply because they do not get their way. You'd think one would show some respect based on mutual professional courtesy.
January 10 at 6:59pm via mobile · 2
Kara Braxton So it's not just about seniority then? I'm just confused ...
January 10 at 7:03pm
Kara Braxton I've seen guys almost come to blows over this..I mean really almost punch each other out on a RON when this came up.
January 10 at 7:06pm
Tony Anger It's all about seniority and keeping what we have, and what we came to the table with Kara....and no it is far from over. If the east pilots would have accepted the binding arbitration the average pilot would be about $300K richer and we would have moved on from this a long time ago.
January 10 at 7:07pm · Edited · 5
Tony Anger well, a hundred years from now it won't make a bit of difference
January 10 at 7:09pm · 3
Earl Norcutt I was in ground school with Eric F today. Interesting...
January 10 at 7:14pm via mobile
Kara Braxton So were people going to lose their seniority, or a right seat left seat thing. ? I met a really nice guy at the short PHL RON who tried to explain it to me...it made sense, and I know how our East guys are, but this guy got real emotional over it ( he's a West guy). And he said the same thing, money wise , everyone lost a lot.
January 10 at 7:15pm
Kara Braxton Our guys are pretty stubborn
January 10 at 7:17pm
Earl Norcutt The appeal is already started. Silver contradicted herself throughout and it's going to get her in an appeal. USAPA may be patting themselves on the back, but if they read close, Silver's judgement actually gives APA the ability to assume total contro...See More
January 10 at 7:33pm via mobile · 3
Eric Auxier It's a head-scratcher how Silver could ream them so hard and then rule in their favor. She knows they are liars and thieves--she saw it with her own eyes. I still maintain the Company will not move off the Nic; they were hoping to hide behind Silver's ...See More
January 10 at 8:17pm · Edited · 2
Aaron Thomas Eric was that pic taking on laughing gas
January 10 at 8:24pm via mobile · 1
Michael Africa How does a union (APA) negotiate with themselves? I have never read such crazy stuff in a legal brief in the 7 years since we merged. It's just mind boggling.
January 10 at 10:44pm · 2
Amy Lozano This is unbelievable. Doug Parker is the ultimate responsible party for not knowing how to successfully merge an airline from the beginning and keep the morale positive. I don't have a say but if I did I would say appeal. This judge passed the respo...See More
Yesterday at 8:30am via mobile · Edited · 3
Karina Roebuck Go get 'em Tony
Yesterday at 10:48am via mobile · 1
Aaron Thomas We (aol) are beginning to look and sound like the black knight
Yesterday at 10:57am via mobile · 1
Karina Roebuck Tony I don't make much $$$ but if there's anything I can do. Message me
Yesterday at 12:19pm via mobile · 1
Tony Anger Just your prayers and support are enough Karina thank you!
Yesterday at 5:07pm via mobile · Edited · 2
luvthe9
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These two clowns are wanna be lawyers and not very good ones. The west always threw LOA93 at us, your right we are crushing them with the growth on the east side the bid that just came out will be repeated again soon, they could have shared in the growth but these two idiots have destroyed the careers of the west pilots.Black Swan said:
Black Swan
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Interesting. East pilots are scabs now. And Anger speaks of bringing things to the table. Well, we are talking about 2014 now, not 2005. And Tony Anger brings Phoenix, and some narrow body jets that pay the lowest rates. That is all. As I said, the roles have definitely reversed.Claxon said:"Former America West Pilots; read the Leonidas update! It's not even close to being over and it shows just how incompetent USAPA is."
"Tony Anger @TBonetheBiker 11 Jan
For USAPA http://fb.me/2YLJDXag3
"Once again the scabs at USAPA are running around high fiving each other but we have great lawyers at Leonidas and we are well funded...I know we will win this on appeal. The AWA group and the great work our management and employees have done, not only brought us back from the brink but we saved the scabs jobs, and our fellow pilots at AA...this is the judges ruling and it is obvious to anyone with a brain that she was punting the football to a bigger court;
A group of pilots formerly employed by America West Airlines, Inc., and their new
union, have a long-standing disagreement regarding pilot seniority. Unfortunately, there is
no perfect solution to that disagreement. The Court finds the former America West pilots
have not established the new union breached its duty of fair representation. In addition, the
former America West pilots are not entitled to participate in the upcoming statutory
procedure required for the integration of the US Airways and American Airline pilots.
Accordingly,
IT IS ORDERED the Motion for Preliminary Injunction (Doc. 13) is DENIED AS
MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motions for Summary Judgment (Docs. 211, 212)
are DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion for Directed Verdict (Doc. 239) is
DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Include Declaration of Gary Hummel
(Doc. 256) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 257) is GRANTED IN
PART AND DENIED IN PART. Mr. Hummels declaration, and the portions of
subsequent filings that cite to it, are STRICKEN but it is not necessary to strike USAPAs
motion (Doc. 256).
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 283) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion For Injunction (Doc. 297) is DENIED AS
MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court is directed to enter judgment in
favor of Defendant US Airline Pilots Association on Count I and Count IV, a judgment in
favor of US Airways, Inc. on Count II, and a judgment of dismissal without prejudice on
Count III."
DATED this 10th day of January, 2014.
- Tanya Pearce, Mary Woods Lotter, Kristie Putnam Lockwood and 9 others like this.
Kara Braxton So what does that mean? More fighting?
January 10 at 6:35pm
James T Wren The wisest thing we can ALL do at this point is stay cool and fly safely. We can control our jets and ourselves.....little else. My two cents....
January 10 at 6:54pm via mobile · 8
Nick Sites You know it is so immature and childish to me as to why they have to be a bunch of whiners simply because they do not get their way. You'd think one would show some respect based on mutual professional courtesy.
January 10 at 6:59pm via mobile · 2
Kara Braxton So it's not just about seniority then? I'm just confused ...
January 10 at 7:03pm
Kara Braxton I've seen guys almost come to blows over this..I mean really almost punch each other out on a RON when this came up.
January 10 at 7:06pm
Tony Anger It's all about seniority and keeping what we have, and what we came to the table with Kara....and no it is far from over. If the east pilots would have accepted the binding arbitration the average pilot would be about $300K richer and we would have moved on from this a long time ago.
January 10 at 7:07pm · Edited · 5
Tony Anger well, a hundred years from now it won't make a bit of difference
January 10 at 7:09pm · 3- Earl Norcutt I was in ground school with Eric F today. Interesting...
January 10 at 7:14pm via mobile
Kara Braxton So were people going to lose their seniority, or a right seat left seat thing. ? I met a really nice guy at the short PHL RON who tried to explain it to me...it made sense, and I know how our East guys are, but this guy got real emotional over it ( he's a West guy). And he said the same thing, money wise , everyone lost a lot.
January 10 at 7:15pm
Kara Braxton Our guys are pretty stubborn
January 10 at 7:17pm
Earl Norcutt The appeal is already started. Silver contradicted herself throughout and it's going to get her in an appeal. USAPA may be patting themselves on the back, but if they read close, Silver's judgement actually gives APA the ability to assume total contro...See More
January 10 at 7:33pm via mobile · 3
Eric Auxier It's a head-scratcher how Silver could ream them so hard and then rule in their favor. She knows they are liars and thieves--she saw it with her own eyes. I still maintain the Company will not move off the Nic; they were hoping to hide behind Silver's ...See More
January 10 at 8:17pm · Edited · 2
Aaron Thomas Eric was that pic taking on laughing gas
January 10 at 8:24pm via mobile · 1
Michael Africa How does a union (APA) negotiate with themselves? I have never read such crazy stuff in a legal brief in the 7 years since we merged. It's just mind boggling.
January 10 at 10:44pm · 2
Amy Lozano This is unbelievable. Doug Parker is the ultimate responsible party for not knowing how to successfully merge an airline from the beginning and keep the morale positive. I don't have a say but if I did I would say appeal. This judge passed the respo...See More
Yesterday at 8:30am via mobile · Edited · 3
Karina Roebuck Go get 'em Tony
Yesterday at 10:48am via mobile · 1
Aaron Thomas We (aol) are beginning to look and sound like the black knight
Yesterday at 10:57am via mobile · 1
Karina Roebuck Tony I don't make much $$$ but if there's anything I can do. Message me
Yesterday at 12:19pm via mobile · 1
Tony Anger Just your prayers and support are enough Karina thank you!
Yesterday at 5:07pm via mobile · Edited · 2
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Merger Committee Update
Judge Silver’s January 10th Addington II ruling clears the way for your USAPA Merger Committee to fully engage with APA in the required process for the Seniority List Integration (SLI). We look forward to continuing our work now with the APA so as to arrive at a fair and equitable list for all pilots
The USAPA Merger Committee is now, and always has been, committed to representing ALL US Airways pilots fairly. We are not interested in any proposal that elevates or provides a windfall to only a segment of the pilot population at the expense of another.
We completely agree with the following quote from the decision, but would add that it is equally true when “East” and “West” are reversed:
“USAPA owes duties to all of its members. It cannot justify its actions by claiming it is merely acting as the conduit for enacting the East Pilots’ self-serving wishes. USAPA has never been free–and never will be free–to extract the maximum benefits for the East Pilots, regardless of the cost to the West Pilots.”
It is also important for you to understand the McCaskill Bond process provides that all US Airways pilots will be represented by the USAPA Merger Committee until the SLI process is complete. The MOU and the McCaskill-Bond legislation are very clear and concise on that point.
We believe all pilots on the US Airways list, both East and West, are looking forward to the remainder of their careers with the largest airline in the world and they are looking for a final seniority integration that respects their contributions, while offering shared opportunity in the future. The Merger Committee shares that goal and is committed to achieving a fair and equitable SLI for all of our pilots.
USAPA Merger Committee
Judge Silver’s January 10th Addington II ruling clears the way for your USAPA Merger Committee to fully engage with APA in the required process for the Seniority List Integration (SLI). We look forward to continuing our work now with the APA so as to arrive at a fair and equitable list for all pilots
The USAPA Merger Committee is now, and always has been, committed to representing ALL US Airways pilots fairly. We are not interested in any proposal that elevates or provides a windfall to only a segment of the pilot population at the expense of another.
We completely agree with the following quote from the decision, but would add that it is equally true when “East” and “West” are reversed:
“USAPA owes duties to all of its members. It cannot justify its actions by claiming it is merely acting as the conduit for enacting the East Pilots’ self-serving wishes. USAPA has never been free–and never will be free–to extract the maximum benefits for the East Pilots, regardless of the cost to the West Pilots.”
It is also important for you to understand the McCaskill Bond process provides that all US Airways pilots will be represented by the USAPA Merger Committee until the SLI process is complete. The MOU and the McCaskill-Bond legislation are very clear and concise on that point.
We believe all pilots on the US Airways list, both East and West, are looking forward to the remainder of their careers with the largest airline in the world and they are looking for a final seniority integration that respects their contributions, while offering shared opportunity in the future. The Merger Committee shares that goal and is committed to achieving a fair and equitable SLI for all of our pilots.
USAPA Merger Committee
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So if we reverse the words here is the admonishment:end_of_alpa said:
“USAPA owes duties to all of its members. It cannot justify its actions by claiming it is merely acting as the conduit for enacting the West Pilots’ self-serving wishes. USAPA has never been free–and never will be free–to extract the maximum benefits for the West Pilots, regardless of the cost to the East Pilots.”
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