2014 Pilot Discussion

[luvthe9]

What's USAPA? Who's Bradford?

. What's a NIC., USAPA is kind of like you daddy.

 

[Ames]

 
Why try so hard to convince anyone of the opposite then?...Unless, by your "logic"; you've actually little faith in your own BS? 😉

Not trying to convince anyone of anything.  Be sure to read the APA updates.  Self explanatory.

 

[Ames]

 
Are you now asserting any supposed defense for your nonsensical gibberish due to intoxication? Well...That explains much...although "Glug Glug Glug" may simply indicate you've sprung a larger leak than normally the case, and are finally sinking. 😉

We all know that the intoxication inference belongs to you.  How many meltdowns of yours have we all witnessed?  I recall your fellow pilots concerned that you may have harmed yourself in the past.  Glug, glug, glug belongs to you eastholeUS1.  Get help.

 

[luvthe9]

Sent: 1/17/2014 7:18:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: After the Silver Ruling

For those of you who "believe" that USAPA loses all representational rights if and when APA becomes the certified bargaining agent for all of us you might wish to read what Judge Silver read and the corresponding case law.

I'll post the links but the important part is that the MOU controls who represents "the parties" going into it which is APA and USAPA. Reading section 26 of the MOU and corresponding case law it becomes legally clear that Agency Law is the controlling law and McCaskill-Bond leaves APA, AMR and the USAPA merger committee to finish what is already memorialized in the MOU.

Here is what Judge Silver READ (starting on page 33):

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/events/labor_law/2012/03/railway_airline_labor_law_committee_midwinter_meeting/mw2012rla_jermanjoshi.authcheckdam.pdf

Here is Thomas v. Republic Airways Holdings, Inc.:
http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FDCO%2020120305528

By way of example:

QUOTE
"Thus, sections 3 and 13 of the CAB's labor protective provisions in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger became statutory law.

The Midwest/RAH merger closed on July 31, 2009. The Frontier/RAH merger closed on October 1, 2009.

The unions representing the pilots of the six airlines formed merger committees to negotiate an agreement with RAH to resolve the issue of seniority integration in accordance with sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions enacted by the McCaskill-Bond Amendment and provided in the collective bargaining agreements. Those negotiations resulted in an agreement, effective November 3, 2009, entitled Section 13(Dispute Resolution Agreement (Agreement)." UNQUOTE

In short they negotiated a controlling AGREEMENT similar to OUR MOU.

Here are two examples explaining the Law of Agency (just to refresh memories):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_agency

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/agency

If you READ THE MOU USAPA will NOT lose its right under the MTA to complete the process outlined under the Law of Agency as outlined in 5. 6. 10.f 10.g & 26. through 29.

QUOTE
"5. US Airways, and its successors, if any, shall continue to recognize and treat with USAPA as the representative of the pilots employed by US Airways until another representative for the pilot craft or class is certified by the National Mediation Board (the "NMB"). Subject to the provisions of Paragraph 27, negotiations to convert this Memorandum and the MTA into the JCBA and any implementation or other interim agreement, if any, shall beconducted with USAPA and APA jointly, until such time as one union is certified by the NMB to be the collective bargaining representative of the combined pilot craft or class. At that time, the duly-certified representative shall have exclusive authority to negotiate on behalf of the pilots with respect to the JCBA. It is the Parties' intention that the JCBA shall replace any and all prior collective bargaining agreements for USAPA; however, for APA, the JCBA shall be an amendment to the MTA.

6. During the period US Airways is obligated to bargain with USAPA, it will provide information requested by duly authorized representatives of USAPA's Negotiating Advisory and Merger Committees that is reasonably related to the Merger, subject to the execution of standard confidentiality agreements by USAPA and/or affected individuals upon US Airways' request. US Airways will similarly provide such information on such conditions to APA. Notwithstanding the foregoing, US Airways shall continue to supply information pursuant to Attachment M of the Basic East Agreement in matters unrelated to the Merger.


10f. A Seniority Integration Protocol Agreement ("Protocol Agreement") consistent with McCaskill-Bond and this Paragraph 10 will be agreed upon within 30 days of the Effective Date. The Protocol Agreement will set forth the process and protocol for conducting negotiations and arbitration, if applicable, and will include a methodology for allocating the reimbursement provided for in Paragraph 7. The company(ies) will be parties to the arbitration, if any, in accordance with McCaskill-Bond. The company(ies) shall provide information requested by the merger representatives for use in the arbitration, if any, in accordance with requirements of McCaskill-Bond, provided that the information is relevant to the issues involved in the arbitration, and the requests are reasonable and do not impose undue burden or expense, and so long as the merger representatives agree to
appropriate confidentiality terms.

10g. This Memorandum is not a waiver of any argument that participants may make in the seniority integration process. Nor do the provisions of this Memorandum constitute an admission as to the appropriate allocation of flying following the expiration of the protections in Paragraph 8 of this Memorandum, or the manner in which the respective pre-merger carriers would have operated in the absence of a merger, or the job entitlements or equities that arguably underlie the construction of an integrated seniority list, or for any other purpose. This Memorandum may be offered into evidence or shown to a mediator as background information and to describe the actual operations of the separate carriers prior to expiration of the protections in Paragraph 8 of this Memorandum.


26. APA shall file a single carrier petition with the NMB as soon as practicable after the Effective Date, when APA determines that the facts support the legal requirements for the filing of a petition but in no event later than four months after the Effective Date. If and when the NMB makes a single carrier finding, the single carrier acknowledged by the NMB and the certified representative shall be governed by this Memorandum.

27. If and when the NMB makes a single-carrier finding, the organization certified to represent the pilots of the single carrier, the single carrier acknowledged by the NMB and the certified organization shall promptly engage or re-engage in negotiations to achieve a JCBA to be applicable to thecarrier that will be the product of the Merger. In the event that such negotiations are not completed within 30 days of the NMB's certification, New American Airlines will offer final and binding interest arbitration under Section 7 of the RLA, and the organization will accept such proffer, to resolve once and for all the terms of the JCBA. The arbitration decision shall be issued no later than 60 days after the close of the 30-day negotiation period. A panel of three arbitrators led by Richard Bloch shall serve as the arbitrators for this process. If Arbitrator Bloch declines to serve in this capacity or is unable to resolve the parties’ dispute, the parties shall select another arbitrator. The arbitrator’s jurisdiction and award will be limited to fashioning provisions which are consistent with the terms of the MTA, including provisions which implement the terms of the MTA or facilitate the integration of pilots under the terms of the MTA. The arbitrator’s award specifically shall adhere to the economic terms of the MTA and shall not change the MTA’s Scope terms (Paragraph 25 of this Memorandum) or the modifications generated through the process set forth in Paragraph 24 of this Memorandum.

28. US Airways and USAPA agree to be bound and abide by the arbitration decision contemplated by Letter of Agreement 12-05 of the 2012 CBA. Nothing in the MTA shall modify the decision of the arbitration panel thereunder.

29. Attachment C summarizes the timelines prescribed by this Memorandum for the creation of the MTA, JCBA, and integrated seniority list and shall not prevent the Parties from developing the JCBA earlier." UNQUOTE

I have posted here what the LAW says. Unfortunately, Judge Silvers "dicta" through all of this has been the driving force behind the FUD.

DO NOT FALL FOR IT!

In sum total, whether APA survives as the representative or USAPA, both THE COMPANY AND THE SURVIVING REPRESENTATIVE ARE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THE MOU.

FEEL FREE TO PASS THIS ALONG TO OUR APA BROTHERS AND SISTERS


=

 

[Metroyet]

Relax Easties. When the APA becomes your new CBA here in very short order they can do whatever they want inside of the DFR they owe you. Now. Maybe they have an LUP for stapling you. You won't know if that staple job is an actual DFR for up to a decade AFTER they stapled you however. See, you don't want to upset the "sanctity" of your unions sole right to represent you. There have been several recent court cases that are highly similar to what the APA is probably going to do to you. It's well established now that they can do whatever they want and it's only after the bullet enters your head do you know if you've actually been shot or not. Of course you'll have to fund this decade of litigation yourselves.

The APA can easily argue that they got you this MOU. No doubt they did. There's their LUP for Stapling the US Air pilots. Perhaps the MOU should have required the list to be completed before a new CBA was elected? Perhaps You've been played from the beginning. Sure looks like it.

 

[Pi brat]

 There's their LUP for Stapling the US Air pilots. .

 
 
What's that? How does that fall in line with the MOU?

 

[snapthis]

Relax Easties. When the APA becomes your new CBA here in very short order they can do whatever they want inside of the DFR they owe you. Now. Maybe they have an LUP for stapling you. You won't know if that staple job is an actual DFR for up to a decade AFTER they stapled you however. See, you don't want to upset the "sanctity" of your unions sole right to represent you. There have been several recent court cases that are highly similar to what the APA is probably going to do to you. It's well established now that they can do whatever they want and it's only after the bullet enters your head do you know if you've actually been shot or not. Of course you'll have to fund this decade of litigation yourselves.

The APA can easily argue that they got you this MOU. No doubt they did. There's their LUP for Stapling the US Air pilots. Perhaps the MOU should have required the list to be completed before a new CBA was elected? Perhaps You've been played from the beginning. Sure looks like it.

 
Courtney wants to...
FEEL FREE TO PASS THIS ALONG TO OUR APA BROTHERS AND SISTERS
 
I did and here's their reaction:

 
And mine:

 
 
Note: Please refer to the APA update for information and Courtney for menu suggestions.
 
Pizza or chicken?

 

 

 

[prechilill]

Relax Easties. When the APA becomes your new CBA here in very short order they can do whatever they want inside of the DFR they owe you. Now. Maybe they have an LUP for stapling you. You won't know if that staple job is an actual DFR for up to a decade AFTER they stapled you however. See, you don't want to upset the "sanctity" of your unions sole right to represent you. There have been several recent court cases that are highly similar to what the APA is probably going to do to you. It's well established now that they can do whatever they want and it's only after the bullet enters your head do you know if you've actually been shot or not. Of course you'll have to fund this decade of litigation yourselves.
The APA can easily argue that they got you this MOU. No doubt they did. There's their LUP for Stapling the US Air pilots. Perhaps the MOU should have required the list to be completed before a new CBA was elected? Perhaps You've been played from the beginning. Sure looks like it.

Well said.
Remember Eastholes, "wide range of reasonableness"

And yes, I welcome the APA. All of us in the west are elated having honor, decency and integrity return as our CBA.

Honor, integrity, respect...
Let's all be good union pilots

 

[nic4us]

Remember, yesterday was the anniversary of the great miracle on the Hudson! We all know Sullenberger infuriates you.

Yes it was quite the miracle that after failing to simply look out the window and avoid a catastrophic encounter, Sullenberger was able to ditch into water with 150 able bodied passenger and everybody got out alive!

Great press for the company!

He hardly infuriates me. I quit giving him any thought the day he told an obviously fictitious story under oath on the witness stand.

Now if I were say the real estate appraiser he sued in Cali....well, then I would be infuriated.

 

[nic4us]

So, how long before the scab union files it's appeal to the 9th to overturn it's obvious victory in Silver's courtroom?

Oh, and BTW...the Nic is still the only accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots.

 

[cltrat]

Yes it was quite the miracle that after failing to simply look out the window and avoid a catastrophic encounter, Sullenberger was able to ditch into water with 150 able bodied passenger and everybody got out alive!

Great press for the company!

He hardly infuriates me. I quit giving him any thought the day he told an obviously fictitious story under oath on the witness stand.

Now if I were say the real estate appraiser he sued in Cali....well, then I would be infuriated.

think you could have pulled it off there super pilot?

So, how long before the scab union files it's appeal to the 9th to overturn it's obvious victory in Silver's courtroom?

Oh, and BTW...the Nic is still the only accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots.

have you ever bid by it?

 

[Res Judicata]

What's that? How does that fall in line with the MOU?

Impossible to know yet. You'll have to go to court and see if they violated their DFR after a ratified JCBA. Your new union is free to amend the MOU at any time. Remember?

 

[Bill Brasky]

Pretty hysterical to watch the west meltdown!  You guys and your childish musings make it really easy to dislike you.

 

[prechilill]

So, how long before the scab union files it's appeal to the 9th to overturn it's obvious victory in Silver's courtroom?
Oh, and BTW...the Nic is still the only accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots.

And that's why the Nic cometh...
Together, the CBA and the company will evaluate their liability in seniority methods. Fairness is not a consideration, but having an agreed to and accepted arbitration will be. I wonder what course our new CBA and AAL will do? Hmmmmm

 

[dca319]

Interesting conundrum. In Silver's decision, the one USAPA is gushing over, she states that USAPA disappears once APA comes in. The APA agrees. USAPA is not included in SLI because the company and APA have a Judges decision backing them - the one USAPA never appealed.

What to do?