2014 Pilot Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

From an article by Terry Maxon of the Dallas News, January 23, 2014:

After a six-week trial in 2011, a jury found ALPA guilty of its DFR obligations. The trial to establish damages was set to begin March 17.
Allen Press, lead counsel whose St. Louis law firm took over the pilots’ case in 2006, said the settlement was a fair one that will put money in hands of ex-TWA employees hurt after the 2001 takeoff of TWA.
“We’re very pleased to accomplish something meaningful for a large group of pilots that really suffered as a result of that merger, and we’re pleased by that,” Press said.
ALPA president Lee Moak said ALPA’s decision to settle the case “is in no way an admission of guilt.”

Dear Captain Moak:
Are you unaware that this was the DAMAGES phase of the trial in which your organization was alread found guilty in a court of law?  It doesn't matter whether you admit guilt or now.  You're guilty by rule of law.  
--------------------------------------------
Now...before the usual suspects start quoting the Addington I, remember that by the rule of law that trial never took place.  We will never know if any appeal on the merits of Addington I would uphold the jury verdict.  It's moot.  Addington II spoke to that anyway when Judge Silver ruled that there was no DFR.  Go back to your sandbox and play with yourselves.

 

[luvthe9]

 
I will be very surprised if the SLI goes to arbitration.

Don't let Traitor hear that.

 

[Claxon]

Really??
The ones I talk to say the NIc with MB.

I sure hope Ferguson can file today with Silver. The slick huckster is a pro at funneling cash to Marty

 

[snapthis]

You're never going to pass a random drug test if you keep smoking that s***!

I don't go into work worrying about passing a random drug test. Maybe they should start testing some people in the White House. Then we'd have something to talk about.

 

[traderjake]

 West gets DOH with East and then that list merges with APA.

 
Even you don't believe that's going to happen.

 

[luvthe9]

It has been almost 2 months since we signed the one sided and open ended MOU.

We are supposed to be getting paid for delays and paid premium rates THIS VERY SECOND. The sad thing is that 99% of the pilots you fly with or meet in the terminal have no idea about this.

It would be great if someone could make a a list of the 10 most important parts of the MOU that the company is not honoring. The Native American are getting all parts of the MOU today. We are American pilots just like they are and we should be treated the same, not as second class citizens.

Think of our state of affairs: US AIR pilots work for LOA 93 for all of these years. The company makes a profit and helps AA out of bankruptcy. Our reward is to be paid $8,700 per pilot while our brothers at AA each get $135,000. Now after we agree to the MOU the pilots for AA have all the benefits and once again we have to beg for a date to discuss this inequity ?

DOES THIS BOTHER ANY OF YOU ?

We were delayed yesterday for 18 minutes. The Native American pilot would have entered code 59 in the ACARS and been paid as they waited at the gate. WHY CAN'T WE GET THE SAME PAY ?

For the company to tell us the "......we are a little busy now and this is not a good time to meet .......", that is the oldest excuse in the world and it will drag on this process for months and months.

Why can't we file an injunction and get a Federal judge to become involved and order the company to drop everything and meet with us.

There must be legal avenue we can explore to force the company to meet with us and honor all parts of the MOU.

Very frustrated once again

 

[snapthis]

Sure they want the Nic. Who wouldn't want to put a slug of younger pilots way ahead of themselves. I believe you.

I see how this works. You'd rather see one of your younger Luvs like Courtney go ahead of older pilots Ken Holmes. Courtney, a self-serving chairman of the fake union's furlough committee helping themselves to the jobs of West pilots who held positions prior to the acquisition.

From 2011..
I, COURTNEY BORMAN, declare that the following is true and correct:
1. I make this declaration of my own free will, based on my personal, first- hand knowledge, unless otherwise specifically indicated.
2. This declaration is made in support of USAPAs opposition to the Addington defendants motion for class certification.
3. I am currently a First Officer and have been employed by US Airways as a Pilot since 1999, furloughed in 2002 and resumed again in 2007. I am currently a member in good standing with USAPA.

I am currently the Chairman of the USAPA Furlough Committee.

 

[Phoenix]

It has been almost 2 months since we signed the one sided and open ended MOU.
We are supposed to be getting paid for delays and paid premium rates THIS VERY SECOND. The sad thing is that 99% of the pilots you fly with or meet in the terminal have no idea about this.
It would be great if someone could make a a list of the 10 most important parts of the MOU that the company is not honoring. The Native American are getting all parts of the MOU today. We are American pilots just like they are and we should be treated the same, not as second class citizens.
Think of our state of affairs: US AIR pilots work for LOA 93 for all of these years. The company makes a profit and helps AA out of bankruptcy. Our reward is to be paid $8,700 per pilot while our brothers at AA each get $135,000. Now after we agree to the MOU the pilots for AA have all the benefits and once again we have to beg for a date to discuss this inequity ?
DOES THIS BOTHER ANY OF YOU ?
We were delayed yesterday for 18 minutes. The Native American pilot would have entered code 59 in the ACARS and been paid as they waited at the gate. WHY CAN'T WE GET THE SAME PAY ?
For the company to tell us the "......we are a little busy now and this is not a good time to meet .......", that is the oldest excuse in the world and it will drag on this process for months and months.
Why can't we file an injunction and get a Federal judge to become involved and order the company to drop everything and meet with us.
There must be legal avenue we can explore to force the company to meet with us and honor all parts of the MOU.
Very frustrated once again

The good news is that 49.9% of the pilots agree with you. The bad news is the percentage will never be any higher. Trader is beyond persuasion.

 

[traderjake]

Maybe if the CLT and PHL Reps spent some time on this instead of trying to recall Gary it could be fixed.

 

[Phoenix]

Maybe if the CLT and PHL Reps spent some time on this instead of trying to recall Gary it could be fixed.

Yes, beyond persuasion.

 

[luvthe9]

Maybe if the CLT and PHL Reps spent some time on this instead of trying to recall Gary it could be fixed.

Maybe if Gary represented the pilots instead of the company this would have not happened. Thank your CLT and PHL reps for the extra cash you are now getting.

 

[Mach85ER]

 Think of our state of affairs: US AIR pilots work for LOA 93 for all of these years. The company makes a profit and helps AA out of bankruptcy. Our reward is to be paid $8,700 per pilot while our brothers at AA each get $135,000. Now after we agree to the MOU the pilots for AA have all the benefits and once again we have to beg for a date to discuss this inequity ?

 
 

 
 
luv,
 
    Let's get a little realistic here from the AA point of view. First of all, every AA pilot didn't get $135,000. Only the top few in all categories of "silos" got the amount or near $140K. The average is somewhere around $95K. The number also came from the 72% share of the "new AA", not the LCC share of the deal. You also had ZERO to do with excercising the leverage and negotiating for the piece. We were going to get it even if AA didn't merge, and given the Dow Transports, would have gotten it no matter what happened. We needed $16/share to max, the strike price was $22.55. As for "helping AA out of bankruptcy", give me a break. If we and the rest of labor dropped our contracts to even 10% more than you guys continued to work for, there would have not been a bankruptcy. AA's pre-CHP 11 B737 CA rate was $169, what was yours 60 days ago, $125?.
 

 
We were delayed yesterday for 18 minutes. The Native American pilot would have entered code 59 in the ACARS and been paid as they waited at the gate. WHY CAN'T WE GET THE SAME PAY ?

 

 
I don't know all your contract details. It's not all roses here. We have DGS that rips us off daily on every dep/arr. It's death by a thousand cuts. Would rather have ACARS parking brake pay. Careful what you ask for.
 
We are also dealing with implementation issues. We feel your pain. Hopefully we can get it together, but from what I've already heard, any understandings between both groups suddenly change after your side gets back to CLT after a DFW visit.

 

[Phoenix]

luv,
 
    Let's get a little realistic here from the AA point of view. First of all, every AA pilot didn't get $135,000. Only the top view in all categories of "silos" got the amount or near $140. The average is somewhere around $95K. The number also came from the 72% share of the "new AA", not the LCC share of the deal. You also had ZERO to do with excercising the leverage and negotiating for the piece. We were going to get it even if AA didn't merge, and given the Dow Transports, would have gotten it no matter what happened. We needed $16/share to max, the strike price was $22.55. As for "helping AA out of bankruptcy", give me a break. If we and the rest of labor dropped our contracts to even 10% more than you guys continued to work for, there would have not been a bankruptcy. AA's pre-CHP 11 B737 CA rate was $169, what was yours 60 days ago, $125?.
 

 
I don't know all your contract details. It's not all roses here. We have DGS that rips us off daily on every dep/arr. It's death by a thousand cuts. Would rather have ACARS parking brake pay. Careful what you ask for.
 
We are also dealing with implementation issues. We feel your pain. Hopefully we can get it together, but from what I've already heard, any understandings between both groups suddenly change after your side gets back to CLT after a DFW visit.

Regardless, pilots are paid differently. Parker is pleased at the disparity and will happily exploit any resulting disunity.

Your stock value is higher with the merger than it would have been without. Your willingness to negotiate was much more unified than USAir pilots have ever been. Perhaps the APA approach to negotiations can one day benefit all the "New American pilots", rather than be lost forever with the introduction of weakkneee, fight another day, play your own pilots types that always eek out mediocrity from the jaws of progress.

I say good for you guys for negotiating a good deal, to the extent it was at the expense of management.

 

[700UW]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/01/alpa-twa-pilots-agree-to-53-million-settlement-in-american-airlines-seniority-dispute.html/

 

[Freighterguynow]

 
Now, at the risk of being very unpopular among my east colleagues, there will be no fences around PHX vs. "east bases," and there will be no fences around "east" widebodies in regards to the westicles.  To do so would, IMHO, be a real DFR, and Silver would love to have that in front of her.  The fact is, this is a merger between two companies, and fences will be built between those two properties.  Once the SLI is complete, and the new contract signed, the former US operation will have no internal fences of any sort.

I respectfuly disagree. Protecting a widebody pilot from displacement off their current equipment at airline A but not B would be a DFR from airline B in my opinion.

Widebody pilot is widebody pilot. Equal protections for all.

Which was the problem with Traider and his slotting via the Nic.