2014 Pilot Discussion

[700UW]

Not true.
 
All airline pilot mergers have had fences on widebodies for a certain period of time.

 

[traderjake]

Maybe if Gary represented the pilots instead of the company this would have not happened. Thank your CLT and PHL reps for the extra cash you are now getting.

 
Thank the Recall Committee for ensuring a vote on the MOU.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It has been almost 2 months since we signed the one sided and open ended MOU.

We are supposed to be getting paid for delays and paid premium rates THIS VERY SECOND. The sad thing is that 99% of the pilots you fly with or meet in the terminal have no idea about this.

It would be great if someone could make a a list of the 10 most important parts of the MOU that the company is not honoring. The Native American are getting all parts of the MOU today. We are American pilots just like they are and we should be treated the same, not as second class citizens.

Think of our state of affairs: US AIR pilots work for LOA 93 for all of these years. The company makes a profit and helps AA out of bankruptcy. Our reward is to be paid $8,700 per pilot while our brothers at AA each get $135,000. Now after we agree to the MOU the pilots for AA have all the benefits and once again we have to beg for a date to discuss this inequity ?

DOES THIS BOTHER ANY OF YOU ?

We were delayed yesterday for 18 minutes. The Native American pilot would have entered code 59 in the ACARS and been paid as they waited at the gate. WHY CAN'T WE GET THE SAME PAY ?

For the company to tell us the "......we are a little busy now and this is not a good time to meet .......", that is the oldest excuse in the world and it will drag on this process for months and months.

Why can't we file an injunction and get a Federal judge to become involved and order the company to drop everything and meet with us.

There must be legal avenue we can explore to force the company to meet with us and honor all parts of the MOU.

Very frustrated once again

 
We are a country of laws.  It has served USAPA very well, so far.  The RLA requires that these issues go through the grievance process, and I believe that USAPA has started that.  Unfortunately, the law also allows the company to "play too busy," and that does not give USAPA blanket permission to head to court.  Trying for injunctive relief on these issues might get USAPA a nice fine for filing a frivolous lawsuit, or worse.
 
All that you brought up (except the AA piots getting their equity, which is a separate issue from the contract) bothers me, but not enough to go nuclear over it.  The best thing you can do with your angry energy is to lobby Congress to make the RLA a more level playing field.  I will sign the petition.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I see how this works. You'd rather see one of your younger Luvs like Courtney go ahead of older pilots Ken Holmes. 

 
Actually, after putting up with you and yours, and the antics, for the past 8 years, I would like to see the young pilot candidates (in the dark blue suits sitting the CLT Training Center cafeteria looking pensive and nervous) all go ahead of you and yours.  But luckily for you and yours, I don't rule the world.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Maybe if Gary represented the pilots instead of the company this would have not happened. Thank your CLT and PHL reps for the extra cash you are now getting.

 
You should thank Chip Munn for the extra cash you are now getting.  After all, it was his personal recall of the CLT Reps that guaranteed a vote on the MOU.
 
Or so I've heard.
 
Haven't heard from CM in a while.  Is he on his own web forum taking credit for the pay raises?

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
luv,
 
    Let's get a little realistic here from the AA point of view. First of all, every AA pilot didn't get $135,000. Only the top few in all categories of "silos" got the amount or near $140K. The average is somewhere around $95K. The number also came from the 72% share of the "new AA", not the LCC share of the deal. You also had ZERO to do with excercising the leverage and negotiating for the piece. We were going to get it even if AA didn't merge, and given the Dow Transports, would have gotten it no matter what happened. We needed $16/share to max, the strike price was $22.55. As for "helping AA out of bankruptcy", give me a break. If we and the rest of labor dropped our contracts to even 10% more than you guys continued to work for, there would have not been a bankruptcy. AA's pre-CHP 11 B737 CA rate was $169, what was yours 60 days ago, $125?.
 
 
I don't know all your contract details. It's not all roses here. We have DGS that rips us off daily on every dep/arr. It's death by a thousand cuts. Would rather have ACARS parking brake pay. Careful what you ask for.
 
We are also dealing with implementation issues. We feel your pain. Hopefully we can get it together, but from what I've already heard, any understandings between both groups suddenly change after your side gets back to CLT after a DFW visit.

 
Thank you for putting it in perspective.  I figured there might just be another side to the story.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I respectfuly disagree. Protecting a widebody pilot from displacement off their current equipment at airline A but not B would be a DFR from airline B in my opinion.

Widebody pilot is widebody pilot. Equal protections for all.

Which was the problem with Traider and his slotting via the Nic.

 
The A330s (and A350s if/when they ever get here) will be fenced away from AA pilots for exactly the amount of time that US pilots will be fenced from the B777 and B787.  This is typical.
 
What wil NOT happen is the ability to fence PHX pilots from the A330s or A350s.  THAT would be a DFR on USAPA's part once the SLI and JCBA is complete.  

 

[dca319]

Looks like all of our CPs were replaced with AA pilots except one -CLT. It's quite obvious AA and the APA don't trust us with either SLI or ops.

 

[dca319]

It has been almost 2 months since we signed the one sided and open ended MOU.
We are supposed to be getting paid for delays and paid premium rates THIS VERY SECOND. The sad thing is that 99% of the pilots you fly with or meet in the terminal have no idea about this.
It would be great if someone could make a a list of the 10 most important parts of the MOU that the company is not honoring. The Native American are getting all parts of the MOU today. We are American pilots just like they are and we should be treated the same, not as second class citizens.
Think of our state of affairs: US AIR pilots work for LOA 93 for all of these years. The company makes a profit and helps AA out of bankruptcy. Our reward is to be paid $8,700 per pilot while our brothers at AA each get $135,000. Now after we agree to the MOU the pilots for AA have all the benefits and once again we have to beg for a date to discuss this inequity ?
DOES THIS BOTHER ANY OF YOU ?
We were delayed yesterday for 18 minutes. The Native American pilot would have entered code 59 in the ACARS and been paid as they waited at the gate. WHY CAN'T WE GET THE SAME PAY ?
For the company to tell us the "......we are a little busy now and this is not a good time to meet .......", that is the oldest excuse in the world and it will drag on this process for months and months.
Why can't we file an injunction and get a Federal judge to become involved and order the company to drop everything and meet with us.
There must be legal avenue we can explore to force the company to meet with us and honor all parts of the MOU.
Very frustrated once again

What are you going to do about it? Why not try throwing a 59 into your ACARS and holding your breath?

 

[700UW]

Actually USAPA can go to court if its a major dispute.
 
When US outsourced the Airbus Overhaul, the IAM took them to Federal Court and won a TRO to stop the work.

 

[luvthe9]

 
Thank you for putting it in perspective.  I figured there might just be another side to the story.

. This is why so many of us wanted the MOU changed so we would have language with a specific schedule in it that would stand up in a Grievance. It was never 'if' but 'when' the company would implement the MOU in their interpretation.

As it stands now, as I remember, the MOU has clauses in it that allows the company to implement the provisions of the MOU at their will. When you continue to make the same mistakes over and over, it's not someone else's fault, it's ours. The UCC would have jumped at the chance to make any changes we wanted as long as in the end they got their MOU. For us, the money was important, but to them it was small potatoes. But we never learn to use our leverage, especially when our leaders just want to get a deal. Oh well, it's only money.......

 

[EastUS1]

Looks like all of our CPs were replaced with AA pilots except one -CLT. It's quite obvious AA and the APA don't trust us with either SLI or ops.

 
That's merely management shuffling/marking territority/etc which hardly serves to surprise, and has nothing whatsoever to do with any aspect of "trust" among line pilots or unions. The APA and USAPA are necessarily in somewhat adversarial positions, both seeking the best for their own. Trust isn't any issue within such proceedings. I'd not thought even "you'se" could be that truly stupid, little westie "spartan", but life sometimes surprises anyone. 😉

 

[luvthe9]

THE WEST FEELS THEY SHOULD GET ALL THESE PLANES I BET......
American Airlines disclosed Monday that it has a revised agreement with Boeing that confirms Americans order of 42 Boeing 787 Dreamliners and moves up the first delivery to November 2014.

The disclosure in a Securities and Exchange filing says that Boeing and American have agreed to an accelerated delivery schedule for the 787 aircraft with deliveries scheduled to commence in November 2014 and to continue in each calendar year through September 2018, and the confirmation of the purchase of the Boeing 787 aircraft, which previously had been subject to certain reconfirmation rights.

By happenstance, the announcement comes just as the first operators of the Boeing 787 have suffered some problems with their aircraft, including a battery fire, fuel leaks and other issues.

The last public disclosure on AAs Boeing 787 plans came in parent AMRs 10-Q filing for the third quarter of 2012 in which AMR indicated a later delivery than 2014.

Americans first Boeing 787-9 aircraft was previously scheduled to deliver (subject to reconfirmation rights) in 2014; however, due to production issues such delivery has been delayed, AMR said in its 10-Q filed Oct. 17.

American placed its original order for the Boeing 787 in October 2008. At that time, before design and production issues delayed the new airplane, American was scheduled to receive its first 787 in 2012.

The revised Boeing 787 plans were part of a restructured aircraft purchase agreement signed Friday by American and Boeing that includes:

The assumption and restructuring of certain existing aircraft purchase agreements between Boeing and American,

The entering into of a definitive purchase agreement with respect to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft,

Certain financing commitments for Boeing 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft and certain Boeing 737-800 aircraft,

The assumption of certain other aircraft spare parts, support and services agreements, and

A comprehensive settlement of claims among American and Boeing (including affiliates) in AMRs and Americans bankruptcy case.

American said that as of Monday, it has an order book for 171 Boeing aircraft and options for another 111, or a total of 282. Those numbers exclude the 737 MAX.

Model On order Options Total
Boeing 737 111 40 151
Boeing 777 18 13 31
Boeing 787 42 58 100
Total 171 111 282

Revised, corrected: In addition, American is ordering 100 aircraft from the Boeing 737 MAX family, a more-efficient version scheduled to arrive between 2018 and 2022, and options to buy another 60 for delivery between 2022 and 2025.

American said it and Airbus signed a definitive agreement Friday for Americans purchase of 260 aircraft from the Airbus A320 family.

American previously had disclosed plans to acquire 130 of the current generation of Airbus A320, with the first to arrive in July and the last to be delivered in 2017. It also plans to acquire another 130 from the next-generation Airbus A320neo family, which like the 737 MAX promises better fuel efficiency.
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[luvthe9]

Thank the Recall Committee for ensuring a vote on the MOU.

Everyone knows that's not true.

 

[EastUS1]

Everyone knows that's not true.

 
The chipmunnks don't. Such live in Fantasyland...which, btw, also explains their easy familiarity with and general sympathy for "spartans".