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2014 Pilot Discussion

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Claxon said:
The west pilots, after losing every court case regarding the nicolau, are making their demands known.
Here are your wins....

1) USAPA Loses DFR Case!/US pilot thread
Started by Richard, May 05 2009 02:08 PM


2) On September 28th, 2011, Judge Conrad granted US Airways' request for a preliminary injunction. You can read the 45 page order here. Our initial comments are:

USAPA has been sued in two different federal district courts by two different plaintiffs the West pilots and now the company. Both plaintiffs sued to enjoin (stop) USAPA from consciously harming the respective interests of the plaintiffs. In both suits, the plaintiffs prevailed against USAPA.
Recall that Lee Seham boasted early in our suit that "DFRs are notoriously difficult to win." Judge Conrad writes, "[p]reliminary injunctions are an extraordinary remedy whose primary function is to protect the status quo and to prevent irreparable harm during the pendency of a lawsuit".
Twice now USAPA has lost on claims which should have been easy for a union to prevail on had they followed the law. It is astounding that a union could face two different claims and lose on both, all within three and a half years of its creation.
In addition to losing a DFR and an injunction, in its short lifetime, USAPA has also sued its own members under a civil RICO theory, lost, appealed and lost again on the appeal. In addition, USAPA has allowed grievances to become backlogged to levels unheard of under ALPA; spent over three years in Section 6 negotiations with virtually no progress; virtually eliminated West representation on committees; burned through millions of dollars of pilots' dues money in other frivolous investigations; and now faces the prospect of dozens of pilots being terminated as a result of USAPA's illegal job action. USAPA rabidly uses its Section 29 powers against its membership, unlike anything seen before under East or West ALPA.


The common denominator in all of USAPA's experiences since its inception is the habit of doing the wrong thing, even when the right thing to do is glaringly obvious. The mentality appears to be, "[w]e will get what we want, right or wrong, no matter what it takes!" This fact becomes abundantly clear when one reads Judge Conrad's order. We are stunned by how similar the injunction order against USAPA is when compared to Judge Wake's "Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law," (Doc 593). Both are from very different claims, with very different facts, but when we were finished reading Judge Conrad's order for the first time, it was as if we had seen all of this before. We have. Once again, it comes down to USAPA's consistent inability to do the right thing.

We have printed the headers below from Judge Conrad's order with selected text from each section. We also referenced headers and text from Judge Wake's Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for you to compare to Judge Conrad's order. The gist is clear that the union is wrong. Judge Conrad makes it obvious that USAPA is wrong in its intent, wrong in its actions, and wrong in its direction.
 
luvthe9 said:
But he completely annihilated AOL and the little Spartans. By the way you will like our next bid, when is the next bid for PHX?
Whatever...kiddo.

Make that Generation X...kiddo. :lol:
 
Freighterguynow said:
What was the APA response to Marty''s letter last Spring?
Get used to it.
One response was that they sent representatives to witness the trial.

I am certain they have read Judge Silver's ruling, because they have already communicated in open reports that upon SCS certification uscaba will cease all representational function including SLI.

Get used to it.
 
flyer63 said:
I was told that USAPA would still have a seat at the table thru the MB integration. I have not read the law but I find it highly improbable that the law was written to cut out the other side.
Either way the east will be represented. Maybe we need our own LLC...
The east will be represented at the SLI, just not by uscaba.

You do not need your own LCC, the process will be paid for by the APA with the monies designated in the MOU from the company.

Further, the money remaining in the SCAB union's accounts will be refunded to the MIGS, minus any nominal amounts for closing the doors and settling account, or it will be moved to the APA.

No side will be cut out. The east will have their say, and every attendee in the room will be well aware of the last 7 years of the east failures on every contractual level they entered into, the scabbing of West jobs, and the fact that the Nic is still the only company accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots.
 
Claxon said:
SNAPTHIS, after his kid takes a pistol to school from daddy's top drawer...
"Did anyone actually get hurt, was there any damage? So what's the problem with you people!"
Integrity First!
"All the other kids with the pumped up Keds, better run, better run, out run my gun"
 
luvthe9 said:
But he completely annihilated AOL and the little Spartans. By the way you will like our next bid, when is the next bid for PHX?
Last Friday.

The question that begs is when is the bid for the 757/190 seats owed to the West from prior arbitration?

Hmmmm.....wonder what the company is gonna do?

Oh, and BTW....it seems a Director of Flight is what used to be called Chief Pilot, and a Chief Pilot is what used to be called and Assistant Chief, am I getting that correct? And, if so, how come you east guys need AA Directors to take over and the West does not?
 
algflyr said:
This reads to me like: Ok USAPA, we know we lost, but we want you to agree that you will let us (the West) to be involved in the SLI with our lawyers and you will also agree that the Nic list will be used no matter what. And let's get this done ASPA before the APA takes over. They already filed for single carrier status, so we need to get right on this! like right now! Pretty please...
Marty is definitely out of touch with reality.
O Dwyer should respond with a request to use the seniority list from this latest East bid as the starting point.The one where a guy on probation upgrades to captain at the New American Airlines. In 10 months.
 
nic4us said:
Last Friday.
The question that begs is when is the bid for the 757/190 seats owed to the West from prior arbitration?
Hmmmm.....wonder what the company is gonna do?
Oh, and BTW....it seems a Director of Flight is what used to be called Chief Pilot, and a Chief Pilot is what used to be called and Assistant Chief, am I getting that correct? And, if so, how come you east guys need AA Directors to take over and the West does not?
My guess is they ignore you and let you grieve it with your pals in the CP office.
 
nic4us said:
Last Friday.

The question that begs is when is the bid for the 757/190 seats owed to the West from prior arbitration?

Hmmmm.....wonder what the company is gonna do?
 
 
There was a West bid last Friday? It's not showing up on Wings...
 
Are you talking about seats from now nullified documents that no longer exist?  We gave away your 190 seats to new-hires... 🙂
 
nic4us said:
Last Friday.The question that begs is when is the bid for the 757/190 seats owed to the West from prior arbitration?Hmmmm.....wonder what the company is gonna do?Oh, and BTW....it seems a Director of Flight is what used to be called Chief Pilot, and a Chief Pilot is what used to be called and Assistant Chief, am I getting that correct? And, if so, how come you east guys need AA Directors to take over and the West does not?
Do you know what the word nullity means? Take your IOU to Doug and see what he says.

Our CP in CLT is staying.
 
Pi brat said:
Do you know what the word nullity means? Take your IOU to Doug and see what he says.
Our CP in CLT is staying.
Is a "nullity" when a fake union is so fking stupid they negotiate their own imminent, complete demise? See you at the Arbitration. Bring Kleenex for the panel. Your sob stories were so effective last time.
 
nic4us said:
"All the other kids with the pumped up Keds, better run, better run, out run my gun"
I was trying to make sense of Claxon's post. I think you got it right when dealing with dark and troubled minds.

The message being......

"The lyrics to "Pumped Up Kicks" are written from the perspective of a troubled and delusional youth with homicidal thoughts.[4] The lines in the chorus warn potential victims to "outrun my gun" and that they "better run, better run, faster than my bullet". Foster said in a statement to CNN.com, "I wrote 'Pumped Up Kicks' when I began to read about the growing trend in teenage mental illness. I wanted to understand the psychology behind it because it was foreign to me."
 
Res Judicata said:
Is a "nullity" when a fake union is so fking stupid they negotiate their own imminent, complete demise? See you at the Arbitration. Bring Kleenex for the panel. Your sob stories were so effective last time.
This post pretty much sums it up for the West......

USAPA is heretofore.....MOOT. In the eyes of everyone connected with this mess, they ALREADY no longer exist. They will squeal, they will *****, and they will posture, but at the end of the day (about 60-75 days) they will claim victory for the screwing they have given us, and then begin the process of dividing the remaining money among the more corrupt of an otherwise corrupt bunch.
 
algflyr said:
 
This reads to me like: Ok USAPA, we know we lost, but we want you to agree that you will let us (the West) to be involved in the SLI with our lawyers and you will also agree that the Nic list will be used no matter what. And let's get this done ASPA before the APA takes over. They already filed for single carrier status, so we need to get right on this! like right now! Pretty please...
 
The term Pathetic comes to mind here, immediately followed by "You'se just HAVE to be kidding us here!?...Right?"
 
snapthis said:
This post pretty much sums it up for the West......
 
 
Yep = Click to Donate. Per "USAPA is heretofore.....MOOT. In the eyes of everyone connected with this mess, they ALREADY no longer exist." = "There's no place like home...There's no place like home." 😉
 
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