2014 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

the word there is Again.

Yep, she seems to revel in being wrong. One of her best:
 
Prechilill 5/14/13
 
"Ripeness is a given- all parties of interest except one think so.  
Injunction issued by July
POR August 31
West pilots take 330 captain bids in Fall.
USAPA gone by December
A few disgruntled AFO easties try to sue the APA and the company- case goes nowhere.  Eventually, interest wanes as the AFOs retire, see the futility in their efforts and realize they need to purchase a small piece of land with a trailer on it to afford retirement.
A sad ending for such a bitter group"

 

[algflyr]

 
So, what list did the APA receive from USAPA?  
 
The company and the APA are staying out of legal hot water, the company has accepted the Nic and the APA can care less how the US pilots are ordered.  

 
First USAPA and APA are working on a protocol agreement. No lists have been passed. They agree to the process, then pass lists across and discuss...
 
Second, are you implying the APA is scared of litigation? They don't come off as the scared type of union to me. Quite the opposite i expect. As far as the company, they probably realize someone is going to try and take this into a courtroom... I'm sure if they could make all sides happy and avoid that, they would.
 
Now I agree the company could care less how the list is constructed. They need crew members to fly the planes. They could care less what their names are as long as they have the required crew to move the plane to point B.
 
The APA on the other hand, probably cares a great deal. I'm sure they realize they won't be stapling anyone in a TWA fashion. So would they rather make room at the top for a lot of old pilots soon to retire? Or would they rather have a much larger number of much younger guys, most with 20 plus years before retirement, take those positions? I think they do care... a lot...

 

[Piedmont1984]

 
The APA on the other hand, probably cares a great deal. I'm sure they realize they won't be stapling anyone in a TWA fashion. So would they rather make room at the top for a lot of old pilots soon to retire? Or would they rather have a much larger number of much younger guys, most with 20 plus years before retirement, take those positions? I think they do care... a lot...

Yep, I once said that the APA doesn't care about the internal order of the LCC pilots, but you point out an excellent reason why they would. I SAS would if I were a Native American.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Ferguson especially. He sacrificed his entire group for self greed and instant seniority. Shame.

Most East pilots do not realize that guy was about 30 numbers away from being on the street. Under the Nic, he could hold Captain in DCA and PHL with pilots below him on the list.

That was two years ago, imagine the imbalance today.

Like summer heat shimmers on a country road - sleaze shimmers emanate.

 

[Freighterguynow]

 
The APA on the other hand, probably cares a great deal. I'm sure they realize they won't be stapling anyone in a TWA fashion. So would they rather make room at the top for a lot of old pilots soon to retire? Or would they rather have a much larger number of much younger guys, most with 20 plus years before retirement, take those positions? I think they do care... a lot...

Of course they care a great deal. The Nic methodology puts 2100 APA furloughs and the 824 Eagle flows - at the bottom. 2900 !

Silence is not acceptance.

 

[traderjake]

Yep, I once said that the APA doesn't care about the internal order of the LCC pilots, but you point out an excellent reason why they would.

 
APA is not going to argue LOS to combine the East and West lists and then turn around and argue equipment and status tho combine the US and AA lists.
 
They are going to want the method that benifits them the most over all, slotting by equipment and status.
 
LOS makes our NB Reserve Captains senior to their WB Captains regardless of how old we are.
 
You're kidding yourself if you think they're going to let that happen, fence or no fence.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
APA is not going to argue LOS to combine the East and West lists and then turn around and argue equipment and status tho combine the US and AA lists.
 
They are going to want the method that benifits them the most over all, slotting by equipment and status.
 
LOS makes our NB Reserve Captains senior to their WB Captains.

 
The APA is not going to combine the east and west lists presented by USAPA (nor is USAPA going to do that) and THEN combine that list with APA.  APA and USAPA will combine all three lists based on a methodolgy that will be determined.  I suspect it will not be a two-step process.  It will be a one-step process using three lists.
 
IMHO, equipment and status will be primary movers, with some consideration to LOS.  Bottom line: When looking at the results and extracting where the east and west pilots came out, it will look nothing like the Nicolau abomination, nor will it be strict LOS or DOH.  
 
High and lengthy fences will be in place for widebody aircraft already on property and on firm order.  No fences of west off US Airways widebodies.  No base fences and no narrow-body fences.  No flush; no bump.  Inked before March 9.

 

[Claxon]

Yep, she seems to revel in being wrong. One of her best:
 
Prechilill 5/14/13
 
"Ripeness is a given- all parties of interest except one think so.  
Injunction issued by July
POR August 31
West pilots take 330 captain bids in Fall.
USAPA gone by December
A few disgruntled AFO easties try to sue the APA and the company- case goes nowhere.  Eventually, interest wanes as the AFOs retire, see the futility in their efforts and realize they need to purchase a small piece of land with a trailer on it to afford retirement.
A sad ending for such a bitter group"

She is a nasty little one, she is. Look at her in the can't take the heat in the desert series of propaganda. Just a shrill and angry person.
Be sure to publish the 330 schedule for PHX so she can come for a tour.
Yes, Ferguson was about on the street when he sold his dreams of instant seniority. That cost the west nearly 3 million. He had multiple chances to change things, but he didn't. It is about over. Soon you will all blend into a large group, and the west will just be an angry little murmur.

 

[snapthis]

That is correct. It has, from the get go, been about the West ' spoils of war ' mentality and what you can take away from another to benefit yourselves.
When America West was sniffing around American Trans Air you were ALL about date of hire then. You wanted all the Captain and wide body jobs in turn relegating the Trans air guys to the right seat of a narrowbody because you were 'entitled' because you 'saved' their jobs.
You demanded separate ops and membership ratification. You did. Because you wanted the ability to tie the integration should the award be not to your liking. Yet, when the East tied up the integration using the very process you envisioned for yourselves you Boo Hooo and accuse us of lacking 'integrity'.
Look no further than the 757 and E-190 arbitrations where in both cases you demanded 1/2 of all position for yourselves. 30% of the pilots demand 50% of the benefits.
Then there was your 'zipper bid' proposal ensuring the west pilots would be number 1 in every seat in every base for bidding the monthly lines even if that West pilot was dead last on the permanent bid award. You love to quote Nicolau what did the Arbitration say in the E-190 case? The West proposal was "overreaching"
It takes two to tango. By trying a seniority land-grab you will, after a decade of being fenced in PHX under contract 2004 now missing out on the next two ( or more ) years of explosive growth at American and the East, pay the price for your actions.
The fitting part is that, in the end, you did it to yourselves.

That's quite the fantasy. It reads like a novel. Y'all are all sniffing. I've heard about boys like you, sniffing airplane glue, causes brain damage. You and Claxon can sniff all you want. Sniff, sniff, sniff.

Pathetic.

 

[Piedmont1984]

APA is not going to argue LOS to combine the East and West lists and then turn around and argue equipment and status tho combine the US and AA lists.
 
They are going to want the method that benifits them the most over all, slotting by equipment and status.
 
LOS makes our NB Reserve Captains senior to their WB Captains regardless of how old we are.
 
You're kidding yourself if you think they're going to let that happen, fence or no fence.

Fencing W/Bs for 5 to 7 years protects them (APA) in the interim and brings the LOS disparity between us and them much closer together once the fences expire. E&S does not address their furlough issue. But if they insist on equipment and status, then it should be E&S IN EFFECT as of Dec 9, 2013 - thereby reflecting the listS in effect at that time.

 

[Phoenix]

APA is not going to argue LOS to combine the East and West lists and then turn around and argue equipment and status tho combine the US and AA lists.
 
They are going to want the method that benifits them the most over all, slotting by equipment and status.
 
LOS makes our NB Reserve Captains senior to their WB Captains regardless of how old we are.
 
You're kidding yourself if you think they're going to let that happen, fence or no fence.

They will have some accommodation for LOS, even if barely a token, or they will go to arbitration where precedent favors some accomodation for LOS (anyway), or worst case ZERO credit to furloughs or Eagles, or maybe even meaningless wide body protections. AA has the most, and by definition the most risk or the most to argue. It's a gamble. 😀

 

[snapthis]

Prep school? All your days on the board under multiple names? Underachiever.

I'll put that up there with RICO and false ID charges. When you get beat on arguments you come up with this multiple screen thing. Cheat, cheat, cheat. That's the creed of an Usapian.

Report it to the mods. See if you get anywhere.

I seriously doubt it.

 

[traderjake]

 
It will be a one-step process using three lists.
 
 

 
It will be a one step process if it's negotiated and slottting by equipment and status favors APA. 

 

[traderjake]

 AA has the most, and by definition the most risk or the most to argue.

 
No they don't, every arbitration has favored what the want.

 

[Freighterguynow]

That's quite the fantasy. It reads like a novel. Y'all are all sniffing. I've heard about boys like you, sniffing airplane glue, causes brain damage. You and Claxon can sniff all you want. Sniff, sniff, sniff.
Pathetic.

What is it with the West sniffing fetish?

I hear you like to sniff girls bicycle seats.