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2014 Pilot Discussion

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USAPA and their supporter's effort to blame Management and APA for the APA-USAPA ISL state of affairs is simply nonsense. USAPA did this to them self.

I know the commentary below is not going to be favorably read by East pilots, but I’m not going to sugar coat the problem and tell pilots what they want to hear. Nor am I going to twist the facts, use sentence fragments to mislead, or unprofessionally argue a point where I’m viewed as operating with “contumacious" behavior," which is to be obstinately disobedient, rebellious, and insubordinate, which are used to describe USAPA and the union's officials by management in federal court.

Instead this discussion is like the "No Spin Zone” that will cut through USAPA’s rhetoric and misleading commentary. 

The issue is that USAPA negotiated the MOU, along with APA, AMR, LCC, and the UCC. USAPA authorized a SCC proceeding where APA would likely become our agent before a M-B arbitration, if held. The issue is not Judge Silver’s ruling. Silver simply wrote about the RLA, Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs Section 3 and 13, and the MOU where she agreed with USAPA’s position that only the certified collective bargaining agent can negotiate seniority. 

I believe the intent of the M-B statute is to provide a fair and equitable process that could result in an ISL arbitration conducted by two parties that remain independent throughout the process. The M-B statute does not envision the parties would negotiate a contract that creates SCC before the ISL arbitration is held. By ratifying the MOU US Airways’ pilots unknowingly authorized a path for APA to become our union and to take over our representation without USAPA input. 

Then USAPA compounded its problem when it successfully argued against US Airways’ Summary Judgment seeking a court order where pat Szymanski successfully argued a part of the union, whether it was the West pilots as part of USAPA or the US Airways pilots as a part of APA, can negotiate or act like a union.

After reading the RLA, M-B statute, MOU, and Addington II DFR petitions Judge Silver accepted USAPA's argument opposing US Airways and the West pilots' request for a seat at the M-B arbitration table. Silver did so because she accepted the proposition that only the certified representative was entitled to participate in the process. In fact, she made it unequivocally clear that when USAPA is no longer the certified representative, “it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration."

Furthermore, Silver predicted USAPA would take an action and argue a different point if it served its interest whether or not the position is valid. Silver said, "(the court) has no doubt that — as is USAPA's consistent practice — USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.”

Boy did Silver nail that comment and give USAPA a credibility problem with the NMB and federal court in D.C.

According to APA, “USAPA's continuing effort to maintain its role in the McCaskill-Bond process even after APA becomes the certified representative of all pilots at the ‘new’ American Airlines runs directly counter to Judge Silver's unambiguous directive. Given that APA will have the legal duty to represent all pilots and, potentially, liability for failing to do so, and especially in light of Judge Silver's express order, neither APA nor the company could possibly agree to let USAPA control the process after it ceased to be the collective bargaining representative.” 

And, then management compounded USAPA’s problem when the company said, “the language of both the (M-B) statute and (Allegheny-Mohawk LPP) Sections 3 and 13 are clear that the bargaining representative is the only participant on behalf of employees within the class or craft it represents.” That’s federal law. That’s not Judge Silver’s opinion, Management’s opinion, or APA’s opinion. It’s the law. 

According to APA, “APA and the company have always understood that, at some point after a ruling by the NMB on the single-carrier proceeding, APA would assume representation for pilots at the two carriers and, as a consequence, take on a duty of fair representation to all of the pilots. In recognition of this legally mandated state of affairs, APA therefore agreed that, up until the time APA becomes the representative of the entire pilot group, USAPA would be the sole representative of the pilots at US Airways and handle the merger negotiations within its discretion. However, consistent with the law, once APA becomes the representative of all pilots, APA would of necessity displace USAPA and have authority as the certified collective bargaining representative over the process. USAPA has always insisted that it maintain institutional involvement and a degree of control over the process even after it ceases to be a lawful collective bargaining representative. That, however, cannot be the case under the law.”

And, I believe AALand APA is dead-on accurate. Do I like this? No, of course not, but it’s the law and not an opinion. 

According to management, “on three separate occasions, US Airways noted the incongruity in USAPA’s position, given that it is a certainty that, by the time the McCaskill-Bond arbitration begins, the APA will be certified to represent all post-merger pilots of the combined airlines and USAPA will no longer be the RLA collective-bargaining representative for any US Airways pilots.”

Guess what? USAPA authorized a SCC process where APA will likely take over as our agent before the M-B process is fully complete, but USAPA wants to act like our union when this idea violates the RLA and labor law. 

In my opinion, USAPA and their supporter's effort to blame Management and APA for this state of affairs is simply nonsense. USAPA did this to them self.
 
Phoenix said:
I'll sell you a $675 tie and throw in a complimentary $50 gift certificate to Outback Steakhouse! It's a package deal worth at least $50 bucks more than any other deal going!
Click to expand...
You're group unwittingly forfeited over a billion dollars in W-2. Wages to enjoy your temper tantrum. It's run it's course and your little group is simply going "poof" into oblivion with nothing to show but 8 years of documented actions and court records to present to the next arbitration panel. I know you're fond of ending every single post with the laughing emoticon...I wonder if you'll be so quick to drag out that old standby when the realization sinks in that USAPA was an utter failure and you've been buried under 15,000 APA Pilots for the rest of your career.

You seem more intelligent than the average east. Guy here. I think you understand where this is all going in short order. Glad you can laugh about wasting a full third of your career on an absurd, illegal goose chase with your wagon hitched to the USS Imbicile. Glad to hear your family never needed that Quarter Million + you squandered.
 
prechilill said:
Chip nails it. Well done!
Click to expand...
You and Chip can wire your pal Steeleydan to an atomic clock. Between your countdown misfires and his multitude of blown observations and predictions we can have a good old time watching you two torque away.
 
Metroyet said:
Relax. The APA will owe you a DFR even after they slash the throat of your fake union...which is a certainty. See, that's how a democracy works. Just ask Lee $e$ham. You can always organize, collect millions, and sue if you don't agree with their version of "fair". You'll have 6 months to do it though. That's assuming of course if you can accurately identify when the DFR breach actually happened. If you're to late the statute of limitations will wipe you out. Oh well, don't worry. I'm sure it will all work out.
The APA isn't *NEARLY* as full throttle stupid as USAPA.
Click to expand...
Very similar meltdown style of Resjackedoff.
 
prechilill said:
Chip nails it. Well done!
Click to expand...
LOL!!! A Chip cheerleader!!!
"Gimme a C, gimme a H, gimme an I, gimme a P...what's that spell? CHIP!!!"
 
Go for it girlfriend. You and Chip were made for each other. LOL!!!!!!
 
USA320Pilot said:
 
 
USAPA and their supporter's effort to blame Management and APA for the APA-USAPA ISL state of affairs is simply nonsense. USAPA did this to them self.

I know the commentary below is not going to be favorably read by East pilots, but I’m not going to sugar coat the problem and tell pilots what they want to hear. Nor am I going to twist the facts, use sentence fragments to mislead, or unprofessionally argue a point where I’m viewed as operating with “contumacious" behavior," which is to be obstinately disobedient, rebellious, and insubordinate, which are used to describe USAPA and the union's officials by management in federal court.

Instead this discussion is like the "No Spin Zone” that will cut through USAPA’s rhetoric and misleading commentary. 

The issue is that USAPA negotiated the MOU, along with APA, AMR, LCC, and the UCC. USAPA authorized a SCC proceeding where APA would likely become our agent before a M-B arbitration, if held. The issue is not Judge Silver’s ruling. Silver simply wrote about the RLA, Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs Section 3 and 13, and the MOU where she agreed with USAPA’s position that only the certified collective bargaining agent can negotiate seniority. 

I believe the intent of the M-B statute is to provide a fair and equitable process that could result in an ISL arbitration conducted by two parties that remain independent throughout the process. The M-B statute does not envision the parties would negotiate a contract that creates SCC before the ISL arbitration is held. By ratifying the MOU US Airways’ pilots unknowingly authorized a path for APA to become our union and to take over our representation without USAPA input. 

Then USAPA compounded its problem when it successfully argued against US Airways’ Summary Judgment seeking a court order where pat Szymanski successfully argued a part of the union, whether it was the West pilots as part of USAPA or the US Airways pilots as a part of APA, can negotiate or act like a union.

After reading the RLA, M-B statute, MOU, and Addington II DFR petitions Judge Silver accepted USAPA's argument opposing US Airways and the West pilots' request for a seat at the M-B arbitration table. Silver did so because she accepted the proposition that only the certified representative was entitled to participate in the process. In fact, she made it unequivocally clear that when USAPA is no longer the certified representative, “it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration."

Furthermore, Silver predicted USAPA would take an action and argue a different point if it served its interest whether or not the position is valid. Silver said, "(the court) has no doubt that — as is USAPA's consistent practice — USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.”

Boy did Silver nail that comment and give USAPA a credibility problem with the NMB and federal court in D.C.

According to APA, “USAPA's continuing effort to maintain its role in the McCaskill-Bond process even after APA becomes the certified representative of all pilots at the ‘new’ American Airlines runs directly counter to Judge Silver's unambiguous directive. Given that APA will have the legal duty to represent all pilots and, potentially, liability for failing to do so, and especially in light of Judge Silver's express order, neither APA nor the company could possibly agree to let USAPA control the process after it ceased to be the collective bargaining representative.” 

And, then management compounded USAPA’s problem when the company said, “the language of both the (M- B) statute and (Allegheny-Mohawk LPP) Sections 3 and 13 are clear that the bargaining representative is the only participant on behalf of employees within the class or craft it represents.” That’s federal law. That’s not Judge Silver’s opinion, Management’s opinion, or APA’s opinion. It’s the law. 

According to APA, “APA and the company have always understood that, at some point after a ruling by the NMB on the single-carrier proceeding, APA would assume representation for pilots at the two carriers and, as a consequence, take on a duty of fair representation to all of the pilots. In recognition of this legally mandated state of affairs, APA therefore agreed that, up until the time APA becomes the representative of the entire pilot group, USAPA would be the sole representative of the pilots at US Airways and handle the merger negotiations within its discretion. However, consistent with the law, once APA becomes the representative of all pilots, APA would of necessity displace USAPA and have authority as the certified collective bargaining representative over the process. USAPA has always insisted that it maintain institutional involvement and a degree of control over the process even after it ceases to be a lawful collective bargaining representative. That, however, cannot be the case under the law.”

And, I believe AALand APA is dead-on accurate. Do I like this? No, of course not, but it’s the law and not an opinion. 

According to management, “on three separate occasions, US Airways noted the incongruity in USAPA’s position, given that it is a certainty that, by the time the McCaskill-Bond arbitration begins, the APA will be certified to represent all post-merger pilots of the combined airlines and USAPA will no longer be the RLA collective-bargaining representative for any US Airways pilots.”

Guess what? USAPA authorized a SCC process where APA will likely take over as our agent before the M-B process is fully complete, but USAPA wants to act like our union when this idea violates the RLA and labor law. 

In my opinion, USAPA and their supporter's effort to blame Management and APA for this state of affairs is simply nonsense. USAPA did this to them self.
 
Click to expand...
Alright.  Chip idiocracy strikes again.  
 
Lets look at THE MODEL (and the LOGIC) for the next integration:  AA-US Airways PILOTS. 
 
But gee...what DO we look at?
 
Why, the Republic, Frontier, Midwest and Lynx Aviation integration.  Start with page 7 and keep reading.  It LAYS OUT the road map the NMB will most likely use as our integration goes forward.  Why reinvent the wheel.
 
And do you know what is REALLY funny?  Chip has the award on his website and he can't even read it (unbias facts...Chip joke)!!
 
http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/Frontier-Republic-PilotSeniorityIntegrationArbitrationAward.pdf
 
"Republic Airlines, Chautauqua Airlines, and Shuttle America (collectively, “Republic”), each have separate operating certificates issued by the Department of Transportation (DOT) and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), but are considered a “single carrier” by the National Mediation Board (NMB) for labor representation purposes."
 
WHOA!  Say it ain't SO!  Separate certificates (like AA-US Airways) yet considered a "single carrier" by the N M B for LABOR REPRESENTATION PURPOSES".  Yet EACH PILOT GROUP STILL HAD THEIR OWN UNION UNDER M-B for SLI!  Opinion by Dana Eischen.  Republic pilots represented by Wilder.
 
Chip alert over.  Westicles can go back and chew on aluminum foil and grating their heads with cheese graters.
 
prechilill said:
Chip nails it. Well done!
Click to expand...
were you able to check out those 330 seats? I hope so ,we sprayed some "Ode to date of hire" in there just for you.
 
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