2014 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

They use the NIC and 3000+ pilots will sue them. They don't use it, 1800 pilots will sue them. It only takes one.
All I can say is they better come up with something that will hold up in court. And it better not smell like TWA...

 
APA doesn't care about the internal order of the East West seniority list but they do care about  minimizing their DFR liability and they are aware of the Nicolau Award..
 
This is going to arbitration, the West will have a seat at the table, and the process will be fair.
 
Go ahead and sue the Arbitration panel.

 

[nevergiveup]

 
APA doesn't care about the internal order of the East West seniority list but they do care about  minimizing their DFR liability and they are aware of the Nicolau Award..
 
This is going to arbitration, the West will have a seat at the table, and the process will be fair.
 
Go ahead and sue the Arbitration panel.

They will gladly sacrifice their own seniority to avoid DFR. Got a little news for you, once the arbitrators issue the award, their is no DFR. The west has the most to fear. And to think, they could have had it all and blew it! Next in line, please.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Trader the only way to minimize the APA DFR liability is a M/B SLI with USAPA,  the DFR knife for the APA cuts both ways. It will be arbitrated I agree but a group without class certification will not be present, The West has representation, just like empire. shuttle, etc!

 

[traderjake]

They will gladly sacrifice their own seniority to avoid DFR. Got a little news for you, once the arbitrators issue the award, their is no DFR.

 
Their own seniority and DFR are not related.
 
No DFR is one reason why this is going to arbitration no matter how much luvthe9 begs APA to negotiate seniority with "nice protections".

 

[electricjet98]

Got a little news for you, once the arbitrators issue the award, their is no DFR.

There IS a failure of DFR for any CBA that chooses to present a faulty SL to the arbitrators for integration with another SL. Since APA will be the CBA during SLI arbitration...or at the very least, the surviving CBA after integration and the inheritor of any USAPA DFR...the west MC will have a seat equivalent to the east MC's seat and the APA MC's seat.

 

[electricjet98]

Their own seniority and DFR are not related.
 
No DFR is one reason why this is going to arbitration no matter how much luvthe9 begs APA to negotiate seniority with "nice protections".

Is that the "Kasher will pay" guy?

 

[PullUp]

There IS a failure of DFR for any CBA that chooses to present a faulty SL to the arbitrators for integration with another SL. Since APA will be the CBA during SLI arbitration...or at the very least, the surviving CBA after integration and the inheritor of any USAPA DFR...the west MC will have a seat equivalent to the east MC's seat and the APA MC's seat.

There is no faulty seniority list. USAPA has two legitimate lists, as the MOU specifies. The Nic is not a legitimate list and judge Silver reiterated that fact in her decision. She also emphasized that the west does not have standing in the upcoming SLI negotiations. The good judge also stated that the west has no DFR claim once the AA list is finalized. And nobody has to worry about a DFR if this process proceeds to arbitration, because it will be an edict, not a negotiation.
At this juncture, the west has little to no leverage to demand seperate representation during the SLI process, since suing post-ISL would be frivolous at best.
Cheers.

 

[traderjake]

There is no faulty seniority list. USAPA has two legitimate lists, as the MOU specifies. The Nic is not a legitimate list and judge Silver reiterated that fact in her decision. She also emphasized that the west does not have standing in the upcoming SLI negotiations. The good judge also stated that the west has no DFR claim once the AA list is finalized.

 
The company and our CBA when we go to arbitration APA, want West representation and they will have it.
 
I expect the MB arbitration panel will combine the East and West list to reflect the Nicolau Award and then combine that list with APA.
 
It won't be called the Nicolau Award so USAPA will claim victory.

 

[PullUp]

 
The company and our CBA when we go to arbitration APA, want West representation and they will have it.
 
I expect the MB arbitration panel will combine the East and West list to reflect the Nicolau Award and then combine that list with APA.
 
It won't be called the Nicolau Award so USAPA will claim victory.

First, you are assuming a lot.
Second, why would APA want west representation while quashing the east? There is no threat of DFR.
Third, how the arbitrators mix the 3 lists is anybody's guess. My guess is that nobody will like the outcome, especially the AA guys, who are most at risk.
Last, any reference to the nic list in comparison to what the arbs might or might not do is nothing but wild speculation and wishful thinking. 
My feeling is that APA, in time, won't want to go to arbitration because pressure from their members to negotiate (versus arbitrate) will override their desire to staple.
That is the game we are playing now, and has nothing to do with the westies and their fervent focus on the deceased Nic list.
Cheers.

 

[traderjake]

First, you are assuming a lot.
 
My feeling is that APA, in time, won't want to go to arbitration because pressure from their members to negotiate (versus arbitrate) will override their desire to staple.

 
Call it my Kasher prediction.
 
APA and USAPA will never reach a negotiated list because anything acceptable to USAPA exposes APA to West DFR liability. 

 

[Zone5]

I expect the MB arbitration panel will combine the East and West list to reflect the Nicolau Award and then combine that list with APA.

 
 
I "expect" that you are wrong and that the LISTS acknowledged in the MOU (note the use of the plural form) currently in effect, will be combined with the APA list, in a three way, using a snapshot taken at the POR, taking into account category and status with a LOS and an attrition factor applied to all three LISTS, see United/Continental SLI.  There will be no accommodation for OBE "ancient history".  Will they give the West credit for the East flying they are doing today? That's the real "question" at this point.
 
Get back to me in a few years after all is said and done and we can compare the accuracy of our differing "expectations".  We shall see.
 
 
seajay

 

[PullUp]

 
Call it my Kasher prediction.
 
APA and USAPA will never reach a negotiated list because anything acceptable to USAPA exposes APA to West DFR liability. 

APA has no DFR liability, inherited or otherwise. What's the complaint? They didn't use the Nic? That was killed by Judge Silver.
What else you got?

 

[traderjake]

Read "APA's Answer and Counterclaims" to  USAPA. 
 
APA acknowledges USAPA's DFR liability and wants no part of it.

 

[traderjake]

Get back to me in a few years after all is said and done and we can compare the accuracy of our differing "expectations".  We shall see.

 
We'll see.
 
Except for putting the WB F/O ahead of the NB Captains, I predicted the exact Nicolau Award.  

 

[nevergiveup]

There IS a failure of DFR for any CBA that chooses to present a faulty SL to the arbitrators for integration with another SL. Since APA will be the CBA during SLI arbitration...or at the very least, the surviving CBA after integration and the inheritor of any USAPA DFR...the west MC will have a seat equivalent to the east MC's seat and the APA MC's seat.

They can just download the lists like everyone else.(lists in effect at merger....there were 3...III...4-1=__)