2014 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

Guess we are headed to cost neutral arbitration. Management wants 5 more RJ seats and they don't even know why. They will risk ticking off the whole group during a year of mega profitability, blame it on the pilot group, and get an injuntion. Where have we seen this before?

Why not just give a little on nearly meaningless relief on scope if everyone (at least the top half of the seniority list) gets a pay rate increase?

Why not just give up a little on rigs if everyone (at least the top half of the seniority list) gets a pay rate increase?

Why not give more mainline routes to RJs to increase frequency and feed to increase mainline if everyone (at least the top half of the seniority list) gets a pay rate increase?

If you missed the sarcasm your mindset is the problem. Yes, you know who you are.

 

[algflyr]

 
I'm waiting to see something from the Ayatollah Munn on this.  Please give his FUD the same careful consideration the Pittsburgh cable TV audience gave his hair plug replacement infomercial. 

Here you go...
 
Chip's comments: According to Scott Kirby the company's desire to retrofit the E-175s with 81 versus 76 seats will NOT adjust the maximum number of RJs authorized to be flown or increase the aircraft's maximum authorized gross weight. Therefore, the Company is not requesting the "FLOWN BY OTHERS" number to increase.

What the Company is requesting is a vehicle to increase revenue to be more competitive during a period when RASM is softening because of negative pressure threats such as the economy, Ebola, ISIS, al Qaieda, etc. as indicated by September's results. 

Separately, I have no position on the 76 or 81 seat E-175 because I do not have access to the data on whether or not this change would be positive or negative for our pilots.

Here's what I do have an opinion on or a question:

1. More revenue provides more money for the company to pay the employees higher wages. 

2. There is a clear and painful US Airways history, especially for our pilot group, that when a union publicly draws a line in the sand often times the result is the company takes an action that hurts us (i.e. loss of the DB Plan, LOA 93 being worse than the company's ask, 19.33 percent loss of equity, etc). Will that happen here?

3. Will the 81-seat rejection provide an incentive to the Company to divert aircraft acquisition capital from Group 2, 3, and 4 aircraft purchases/leases to acquire more E-190s instead of larger aircraft?

4. Will our mainline pilots be forced to fly more E-190s instead of larger aircraft if the Company wants to match short-haul flying with demand because we wont have an 81-seat E-175?

How ironic it would be for our pilots to end up having more opportunity to fly E-190s than Group II and above aircraft  opportunities by simply permitting E-175 pilots to fly 5 more passengers in their current aircraft that would provide a lot more revenue at a negligible cost.

5. In my opinion, when politicians publicly draw a line in the sand they give them self very little margin to back peddle, if necessary, which can become a negative. Just ask President Obama.

6. Time-and-time again when Scott Kirby provides a quid pro quid and a union says "no" the Company takes an action to get the union's attention. Just ask an Envoy pilot. Will that happen here and end our honeymoon? 

In my opinion, APA's public rejection of Scott's 81-seat E-175 request will not have an Envoy type of effect on us. 

However, I do believe this decision could negatively effect us in JCBA negotiations as a means to get APA's attention. Why? History is a great teacher and this is not the first time we have seen this rodeo. And, less revenue on a unit basis provides less money to pay the pilots when you cost account, i.e. Accounting 101. 

Nonetheless, I drank one Diet Pepsi and ate one bag of popcorn while watching the proceedings from APA's gallery with us non Native American Pilots and APA members.

Meanwhile, APFA informed their members today that due to IT integration work, implementing a common scheduling platform, and combining Crew Scheduling -- the time to integrate flight crews is taking longer than expected. Therefore, flight crew base transfers between the two companies is not expected to occur for 2-3 years or until about 2017.

Regards,

Chip      

 

[EastUS1]

Here you go...
 
Chip's comments: .....the company's desire to retrofit the E-175s with 81 versus 76 seats will NOT adjust the maximum number of RJs authorized to be flown or increase the aircraft's maximum authorized gross weight. Therefore, the Company is not requesting the "FLOWN BY OTHERS" number to increase.

What the Company is requesting is a vehicle to increase revenue to be more competitive during a period when RASM is softening because of negative pressure threats such as the economy, Ebola, ISIS, al Qaieda, etc. as indicated by September's results. 



1. More revenue provides more money for the company to pay the employees higher wages. 

2. There is a clear and painful US Airways history, especially for our pilot group, that when a union publicly draws a line in the sand often times the result is the company takes an action that hurts us (i.e. loss of the DB Plan, LOA 93 being worse than the company's ask, 19.33 percent loss of equity, etc). Will that happen here?

Regards,

Chip      

 
"...81 versus 76 seats will NOT adjust the maximum number of RJs..." No it wouldn't chip, you complete idiot. It'd simply "adjust" the overall number of aircraft needed to transport that same amount of people around, as well as establish upward trending future benchmarks for what aircraft could be considered "RJ's" Some times...words just fail me with people,
 
"...because of negative pressure threats such as the economy, Ebola, ISIS, al Qaieda, etc."  Yeah. Pretty much what I'd predict his response to be: "Auntie Em!...It's a twister!"...."The sky is (always) falling!"
 
"1. More revenue provides more money for the company to pay the employees higher wages." Well then; what's wrong with the employess FINALLY demanding to actually get some, given that revenue is at or near record levels at present?
 
"...that when a union publicly draws a line in the sand often times the result is the company takes an action that hurts us..." = "It's ALWAYS hopeless folks! While the best time to completely surrender was yesterday, we can at least all get down on our knees right now and beg for mercy!" 
 
Sigh...All of this latest, brilliant missive is typically chip in every way.
 
P.S. Points given for a truly astonishing moment of genius though: "Therefore, flight crew base transfers between the two companies is not expected to occur for 2-3 years or until about 2017." Wow? Really!..? Who could've seen that coming?

 

[EastUS1]

This is an issue that we can all unite behind.  East, West and AA.  Scope relief will be the camel's nose under the tent.  For those of you with a long career ahead, this is especially critical.  Just say no.
 
I'm waiting to see something from the Ayatollah Munn on this.  Please give his FUD the same careful consideration the Pittsburgh cable TV audience gave his hair plug replacement infomercial. 

 
I'd like to second your thoughts here, and strongly suggest enhanced awareness of the fact that surrendering scope equals the death of many seats and careers to those with otherwise many years to go.

 

[EastUS1]

Looks like the APA is learning the hard way about Parker & Company's tactics with the extension debacle for the JCBA negotiations.
 
We told you so.  
 
The APA legacy AA "sheeple" Board members gave in.  Sad to see it start so quickly.  Parker will have the entire pilot group on LOA 93 before they're done giving s*** up.

 
"We told you so." Yep...

 

[Claxon]

2017 for base transfers is overly optimistic. Take note west pilots. It will be A320 flying for years to come. 2019 is more realistic. Parker is the master. APA is slow to spool up on him.
Meanwhile east attrition will ramp to warp levels. 4 yr upgrades to A320 will be the norm very soon.

 

[Claxon]

American Airline pilots, want to go to arbitration?  the west pilot quoted below wants to. 
 
""Calvin,

Every pilot gets diluted by a reduction in flying. So I guess we agree there. I also agree that no one factor should determine seniority. Another agreement.

Again, APA merger committee should make their argument regarding fences, fleet make up etc. APA should also let us (awa pilots) make our argument and then let the panel decide and honor it. Another agreement between us?""
 
Edward Siemer III
PHX/FO/320/DOM
SIEMER III E FO 320 PHX   DOH 2/23/04

 

[EastUS1]

American Airline pilots, want to go to arbitration?  the west pilot quoted below wants to.

 I also agree that no one factor should determine seniority.......DOH 2/23/04

 
"I also agree that no one factor should determine seniority."  Umm...especially since I want far more faux "seniority" than my actual worked years ever EARNED for me, and any personal efforts or supposed worth would ever sanely grant me here. 
 
How very convenient, and so very sadly typical of pure opportunists. = I "agree" that I should be able to usurp years of your working life for my own, entirely unearned benefit...and since I "agree"...I must be a great guy...Right?

 

[Claxon]

VASIN M FO 320 PHX  DOH 3/29/04. ( american eagle alumni) Setting everyone straight on how it should be done.
 
"
"• A posting on May 14, 2008 by Defendant Vasin,
relating a message received on the AWAPPA
website from an American Eagle pilot who wrote,
 
""""“Hi, Eagle guys have the Pxxxx information for
jumpseat usage, so you guys should be fine. Best
of luck, I have a lot of friends with your airline.” [Id.
at ¶119]."
 
cc:  Arizona Bar Association"""""  (mitch, I forwarded this to the Arizona Bar association and asked why you have new powers now. 
 
mitch, you are fighting for what is right? (sarcasm and sadness).  I included a east pilot that is above you via the ill fated nic.
 
DAVIS D SPV 10/12/87 56.6
VASIN M FO 320 PHX 3/29/04 41.3

 

[EastUS1]

VASIN M FO 320 PHX  DOH 3/29/04. ( american eagle alumni) Setting everyone straight on how it should be done.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/2005/January/200501_Departments_Careers.html
 
"Through September 2004, some 7,472 pilots found jobs in the industry compared to 4,743 during all of 2003. But of those hired through the third quarter of 2004, only 877 found work at a major airline. Many more found work at regional airlines -- but which ones are the movers and shakers in terms of size, hiring trends, and pay?"
 
"...only 877 found work at a major airline..." Well, we now know all (too much really) about at least the AWA portion of those that couldn't make the cut...without even any FBI polygraph involved.

 

[EastUS1]

What makes you think you could have gotten an interview or kept from scraping your tail on the simulator profile?

What a joke.

 
"Would four job offers from majors count?"
 
Since you're apparently, unlike my clearly sorry self, an expert on major airline hiring, well, I almost wanted to ask earlier, but will now do so: What, exactly, kept "you'se" out of the "big leagues"? Did you ever even get so much as any interviews? Honest questions both, but I rather suspect I'd have to settle for some variant of a shouted "This is Sparta!" and a disgusting vision of a froth and spittle saturated keyboard, instead of anything even remotely approaching an honest answer, should "you'se" even attempt the feat...
 
P.S. I'll admit to some cruelty on my part there, which wouldn't ever be afforded to any people that aren't utterly distasteful and insipidly arrogant jackazzes.

 

[Claxon]

 
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
Don Addington, et al.,
Plaintiff(s),
v.
US Airline Pilots Association, et al.,
Defendant(s).
)
AMENDED
JUDGMENT IN A CIVIL CASE
CV-13-0471-PHX-ROS
 
Jury Verdict. This action came before the Court for a trial by jury. The issues
have been tried and the jury has rendered its verdict.
X Decision by Court. This action came for consideration before the Court. The
issues have been considered and a decision has been rendered.
 
IT IS ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that pursuant to the Court’s Order filed March 31,
2014, judgment is hereby entered in favor of Defendant US Airline Pilots Association on
Count I and Count IV; judgment in favor of US Airways, Inc. on Count II; and a
judgment of dismissal without prejudice on Count III. This judgment applies to the
certified West Pilot Class as defined in the Court’s September 18, 2013, Order: “All
pilots who are on the America West seniority list currently incorporated into the West
Pilot’s collective bargaining agreement.” This action is hereby terminated.
 
BRIAN D. KARTH
 
District Court Executive/Clerk
March 31, 2014
s/L.Figueroa
By: Deputy Clerk
cc: (all counsel)

 

[Claxon]

 
VASIN M FO 320 PHX  DOH 3/29/04. ( american eagle alumni) Setting everyone straight on how it should be done.
 
"
"• A posting on May 14, 2008 by Defendant Vasin,
relating a message received on the AWAPPA
website from an American Eagle pilot who wrote,
 
""""“Hi, Eagle guys have the Pxxxx information for
jumpseat usage, so you guys should be fine. Best
of luck, I have a lot of friends with your airline.” [Id.
at ¶119]."
 
cc:  Arizona Bar Association"""""

mitchell,  it sort of sounds like, back then in 2008,  a threat from fifth tiered law school student.  Your thoughts?

 

[CactusPilot1]

"Would four job offers from majors count?"
 
Since you're apparently, unlike my clearly sorry self, an expert on major airline hiring, well, I almost wanted to ask earlier, but will now do so: What, exactly, kept "you'se" out of the "big leagues"? Did you ever even get so much as any interviews? Honest questions both, but I rather suspect I'd have to settle for some variant of a shouted "This is Sparta!" and a disgusting vision of a froth and spittle saturated keyboard, instead of anything even remotely approaching an honest answer, should "you'se" even attempt the feat...
 
P.S. I'll admit to some cruelty on my part there, which wouldn't ever be afforded to any people that aren't utterly distasteful and insipidly arrogant jackazzes.

Four job offers from majors? Sure...I'll just take your word which probably isn't saying much considering any it came from an Usapian. The next question I would have is of the four majors, you chose US Air? I'll bet you had tail strikes on your other 3 interviews. That would be a more likely scenario because nobody would chose Crap Airways over a Major Airline.

BTW, I never sent an app to Crap Airways. Too East US for me. I like the SW, been here all my life. Ewes don't have to worry about me ever going to Filthadelphia. You can stay on your island as well.

 

[nevergiveup]

Four job offers from majors? Sure...I'll just take your word which probably isn't saying much considering any it came from an Usapian. The next question I would have is of the four majors, you chose US Air? I'll bet you had tail strikes on your other 3 interviews. That would be a more likely scenario because nobody would chose Crap Airways over a Major Airline.

BTW, I never sent an app to Crap Airways. Too East US for me. I like the SW, been here all my life. Ewes don't have to worry about me ever going to Filthadelphia. You can stay on your island as well.

You are obviously way to young and under experienced. Perhaps your local FBO can help.