700UW you missed an update, WTF

[700AW]

They have a survey on their site which is yet another way they are trying to appear that they are the clear cut winners.. just more propaganda

questions follow

"1 Successorship language and merger protection.
2 Protection of Scope Language.
3 Bringing work in house.
4 10 hour work day/4 day work week.
5 Number of Holidays observed each year.
6 Rate of pay when required to work Holidays.
7 Double time when working overtime.
8 Per diem while away from home base.
9 Merging of Seniority.
10 Bidding and bumping rules.
11 Stability periods.
12 Qualifications for filling vacancies.
13 Leave of absences.
14 Vacation accrual.
15 DAT vacation days.
16 Vacation ratio/selection process.
17 Sick Leave accrual.
18 Pay while on Sick Leave.
19 Shift Premiums.
20 Continuation of benefits while on furlough.
21 Licence Pay.
22 Skill Pay.
23 Line Pay.
24 Shift swap policy.
25 Base Wage Rates.
26 Longevity Pay.
27 Continuation of medical benefits while on leave of absence.
28 Severance Pay.
29 IAM National Defined Benefit Pension Plan.
30 Medical Plan features.
31 Defined contribution 401K plan.
32 Cost to employee for Medical Plan
33 Dental Plan features.
34 Cost to employee for Dental Plan.
35 Prescription Plan features and co-pays.
36 Retiree Medical Benefits

Then there is a comment section one can fill out, and boy howdy did I...

 

[gonzo]

Hey 700AW got a link?

 

[Bird Doctor]

YES A LINK

 

[700AW]

http://www.iamdl142.org/

click on the survey on the left side of screen

( of course I have a link, I would never post anything without proof)

 

[delldude]

here









password is maintenance h34r:

 

[Tim Nelson]

YES A LINK

Unfortunately, the survey is 100% propaganda and as the IAM loyalist and 700 have rightfully spouted, there will be no section 6 opener with a transition agreement. The primary negotiations in any transition agreement will be seniority only.

Also, in a Classic IAM loyalist flip flop on the other side of the mouth I have heard IAM loyalist telling small groups of workers that the IAM is going to get back double time, more vacation, paid sick time, Freight jobs back in house, etc if you vote for them.
Those are drunken promises in the dark. The only thing that will be iron clad and guaranteed is the IAM's fate if there is an election..a swift boot off the property.

Just for conversation, if there were no election then you can be 100% guaranteed with fact that there will be more 'pain' for IAM members & the IAM's iron clad abrogated bankrupt contract will result in probably 80% of the US WEST stations to be contracted out & a restrictive jurassiclike IAM pension plan for those who continue to work.

regards,

 

[delldude]

Unfortunately, the survey is 100% propaganda and as the IAM loyalist and 700 have rightfully spouted, there will be no section 6 opener with a transition agreement. The primary negotiations in any transition agreement will be seniority only.

Also, in a Classic IAM loyalist flip flop on the other side of the mouth I have heard IAM loyalist telling small groups of workers that the IAM is going to get back double time, more vacation, paid sick time, Freight jobs back in house, etc if you vote for them.
Those are drunken promises in the dark. The only thing that will be iron clad and guaranteed is the IAM's fate if there is an election..a swift boot off the property.

Just for conversation, if there were no election then you can be 100% guaranteed with fact that there will be more 'pain' for IAM members & the IAM's iron clad abrogated bankrupt contract will result in probably 80% of the US WEST stations to be contracted out & a restrictive jurassiclike IAM pension plan for those who continue to work.

regards,

c'mon tim.....tell them in all fairness IBT has been spouting off all kinds of similar claims.....and their site is full of propaganda also....

 

[700AW]

Dell, in all honesty ( don't blow chunks) what I get from the IAM is that we are doomed to the current CBA in place there, with no thought of trying to change it for the better, at least with the IBT, there is a glimmer of hope that we can force a change and an attempt will be made, if it fails then we are still stuck with the IAM CBA. I want a chance to change things for all of us that will make it better for all of us, not just one side...

 

[delldude]

Dell, in all honesty ( don't blow chunks) what I get from the IAM is that we are doomed to the current CBA in place there, with no thought of trying to change it for the better, at least with the IBT, there is a glimmer of hope that we can force a change and an attempt will be made, if it fails then we are still stuck with the IAM CBA. I want a chance to change things for all of us that will make it better for all of us, not just one side...

no problem here......just all this IAM is better...no IBT is....look long and hard into both contracts...there isn't a whopping amount of difference.pluses and minuses on both.but with the industry the way it is and will be...theres not going to be any return to industry leading wages by very many carriers...unless you want to off maintenance and such...smal workforce you'll get $40/hour...but not too many will.

i respect the IBT members for their loyalty to their cause and the same can be said for IAM supporters too.

 

[Bird Doctor]

You are not asking for anything that (we)IBT don't already have. Maybe item 29 other than that most of what your asking for would bring you up to where we are now.

So what person in there right mind would want to start lower than what is already on the table. Then try and get it to where the IBT is NOW, better than what the IAM has to offer. Working with what the IBT has on the table now and making it even better. How could you go wrong?

SIMPLE MATH:. lets just say that we get a 10% raise. That would bring an US Airways A&P base pay to $25.05 compared to America West pay $23.35 now is only a 3% raise.

IAM MATH lets give up 7% or in other wolds lets just try for a 3% raise for our members :down:

 

[delldude]

i hear ya......so a buck and some change and you'll jump off for IBT?
don't get me wrong.....the differences are not that great...you realize that.
we can argue until the cows come home.....it ain't that big.
some will say they hate IAM..so be it.

but you'll find someone(Fred) who isn't in love with IBT..

its like apples and oranges....both good for you...

you know what the marines say about apples don't ya?

eat the apple and **** the corps

 

[Tim Nelson]

c'mon tim.....tell them in all fairness IBT has been spouting off all kinds of similar claims.....and their site is full of propaganda also....

Alas, I agree with you Delldude. I haven't been to the IBT site but if they are painting this larger than life stuff about how they are going to flex their muscle before the durational completion and force the company into section 6's then it is either an 'intentional' IAMlike genuine 100% lie OR they honestly believe the company as led by the board of directors and stockholders will want to reopen the contract. I would submit to you that there is absolutely no casework, nor evidence that the US AIRWAYS Board of Directors, Stockholders, etc. would direct your management to want to throw away its current CBA and start negotiating on a new one. Talk to the contrary is dillusional, unthinkable, and quite honestly utter nonsense.

Can a union get away with its organizers saying "Our attorney's have told us that we have every right to reopen the contract." Yes, because technically the unions certainly have a right to ask. Will the company say "Gee let's reopen this contract". No. End of story.

Certainly if one's an organizer pushing TWU, IBT, IAM, he/she should rather be upfront and say something like, 'you're screwed with this current contract, I don't like it either, but I feel so and so can do better in 4 years when your contract is up."

Again, for someone to put out a survey with every article mentioned from wages to vacation and to imply that all these things are up for negotiations is 100% lie...no doubt about it!

regards,

 

[700UW]

I have known about the survey, just did not want to post it on here.

I have missed nothing, the thread should be IAM Survey not about me.

 

[delldude]

I would submit to you that there is absolutely no casework, nor evidence that the US AIRWAYS Board of Directors, Stockholders, etc. would direct your management to want to throw away its current CBA and start negotiating on a new one. Talk to the contrary is dillusional, unthinkable, and quite honestly utter nonsense.

total agreement

Certainly if one's an organizer pushing TWU, IBT, IAM, he/she should rather be upfront and say something like, 'you're screwed with this current contract, I don't like it either, but I feel so and so can do better in 4 years when your contract is up."

exactly...

Again, for someone to put out a survey with every article mentioned from wages to vacation and to imply that all these things are up for negotiations is 100% lie...no doubt about it!

hold the phone.....they're talking transition discussions which aren't sec 6 neg's...now you're sounding foggy....please...excellent post up to here.

 

[700UW]

Tim I probably never agree with you on anything.

But your post is quite accurate.

There can be improvements to the contract during transition talks but they will come at a price.