757 Economics

[777 fixer]

Some interesting comments about the cost issues associated with AA's 757 fleet from Mr. Arpey. I always thought the 757 was one of the better ones when it came to costs. Wonder which suppliers he's talking about when he says "It is fair to say we are struggling with the economics of the 757 fleet in light of some of the contractual issues we have with suppliers,".

Needless to say with the 757 line closed and the oldest AA 757 being twenty eventually it will be retire. However you have to wonder if it's going to go sooner than though. Maybe in favor of the 737-900ER. On the other hand given the current economic climate it's doubtfull a decision will be made soon.


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/...-with-757s.html

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Wasn't the 757 always touted as having one of, if not the lowest CASM of any mainline aircraft operating today?

Leave it to AA to find a way to bone that up too...

 

[eolesen]

Ironically, 20 years ago TODAY, N611AA was delivered from Boeing.

I see three things at play here...

1) It's quite unlikely that a 20 year old airframe still has the best CASM around, and costs go up as the airframe ages.

77 airframes (well over half the fleet) are at least 15 years old. Nose 5ES (103rd delivery) is 10 years old. The youngest is seven years old (March 2002).

2) The 757 line is shut down, so replacement parts automatically get a little more expensive when Boeing is no longer in the picture.

3) There are fewer RB211's on the wing than there are PW & GE variants, so there's going to be a slightly higher support cost there as well. Having TAESL as a JV helps keep some of those costs favorable to AA vs. other RB211 operators, but that doesn't help the rising cost of replacement parts.

 

[DFWFSC]

The 757's aren't quite the money makers they were back in the 90's' when they were hauling around 12-15'000 lbs of mail every day. Just about every early morning 757 out of DFW was loaded with mail' the LGA' SFO' and DCA flights were the heaviest.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Does another airline have more 757s than AA's 124 total planes?

 

[eolesen]

AA is the second largest 757 fleet globally.

DL had 150 prior to the NW merger, and got another 46, so they're 196 combined.

Per the last production list I saw, UA had 97, UPS 75, CO 58, and US 37. Everyone else had a fleet size of 25 or less.

Pretty certain everyone except for maybe US has GE or PW power.

 

[777 fixer]

AA is the second largest 757 fleet globally.

DL had 150 prior to the NW merger, and got another 46, so they're 196 combined.

Per the last production list I saw, UA had 97, UPS 75, CO 58, and US 37. Everyone else had a fleet size of 25 or less.

Pretty certain everyone except for maybe US has GE or PW power.

Among US carriers PW holds the edge, GE never made a motor for the 757. However worldwide RR seems to be the engine of choice. The RB211 has a higher TBO than the PW2000 as well.

 

[Ride the Glide]

CO's 757's are all RR powered. They are acquiring the remaining 757-300's that used to belong to ATA. All 757-300's were RR powered.

Shortly before I joined ATA in 1998 they sold most, if not all, their P&W powered 757's to Delta. The reason I was given is that they had reliability problems with the Pratt motor and thus could not keep them ETOPS certified.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ironically, 20 years ago TODAY, N611AA was delivered from Boeing.

I see three things at play here...

1) It's quite unlikely that a 20 year old airframe still has the best CASM around, and costs go up as the airframe ages.

77 airframes (well over half the fleet) are at least 15 years old. Nose 5ES (103rd delivery) is 10 years old. The youngest is seven years old (March 2002).

2) The 757 line is shut down, so replacement parts automatically get a little more expensive when Boeing is no longer in the picture.

3) There are fewer RB211's on the wing than there are PW & GE variants, so there's going to be a slightly higher support cost there as well. Having TAESL as a JV helps keep some of those costs favorable to AA vs. other RB211 operators, but that doesn't help the rising cost of replacement parts.

My youngest car is 14 years old my oldest is 17. I think I need a new car more than AA needs new planes. The 757s are in fine shape.

 

[eolesen]

At least you have the option to fix it yourself or call a tow truck when your 14-17 year old car finally craps out. But you knew that already, I'm sure.

 

[FWAAA]

A few years ago, I assumed that Boeing would eventually reproduce the 757 with a carbon-fibre 787-type construction. Same big wings, same big landing gear, same big engines, but all redesigned for more efficiency. Mated to a lighter composite fuselage, a 200 passenger winner for routes where the market didn't require a 787-8.

That's when the flight of the 787 looked like a reality. These days, I'm not so optimistic.

Maybe the replacement for the 757 will be the 737-900ER after all.

Anyway, the Arpey comment came as an answer to an analyst's question about the Rolls costs; I assume that there has been some increase in RR maintenance costs that AA is trying to work through. But I don't see the 757s going anywhere for a long time.

 

[Bob Owens]

At least you have the option to fix it yourself or call a tow truck when your 14-17 year old car finally craps out. But you knew that already, I'm sure.

Are you saying that our 757s are ready to "crap out"?

Properly maintained, these aircraft will continue to be extremely reliable for many more years.

 

[JMeyersMD80]

CO's 757's are all RR powered. They are acquiring the remaining 757-300's that used to belong to ATA. All 757-300's were RR powered.

Is there something in writing saying this, or are they acquiring them for part reasons? Cause I have not seen anything in DFW the whole year.

 

[FWAAA]

Is there something in writing saying this, or are they acquiring them for part reasons? Cause I have not seen anything in DFW the whole year.

Why would you see anything in DFW about CO's new-to-them ex-ATA 757-300s? The word "They" in Ride the Glide's post refers to Continental, not AA.

 

[JMeyersMD80]

Why would you see anything in DFW about CO's new-to-them ex-ATA 757-300s? The word "They" in Ride the Glide's post refers to Continental, not AA.

Misread......