Its about control and making your lives more miserable. AA wants you to leave but they want you to do so at a controlled rate. I'm sure their pets will still get the flexibility they need. If you've ever noticed the area directors sit on the boards of A&P schools. Remember the video of the MD-80 going to that school in MIA? They are hoping to hire kids out of schools. I'd asked one school for info a while back and the admissions clerk had told me AA had been there recently telling students that there would be plenty of jobs at AA for them when they graduate. I guess AA is hoping that they can mold them into mindless drones who wont bail as soon as they realize what a crappy place this has become. But to the cubicle guys they think it makes financial sense, guess they never looked at Peoples Express.
90 day rotations!
- Thread starter dfw gen
- Start date
Its about control and making your lives more miserable. AA wants you to leave but they want you to do so at a controlled rate. I'm sure their pets will still get the flexibility they need. If you've ever noticed the area directors sit on the boards of A&P schools. Remember the video of the MD-80 going to that school in MIA? They are hoping to hire kids out of schools. I'd asked one school for info a while back and the admissions clerk had told me AA had been there recently telling students that there would be plenty of jobs at AA for them when they graduate. I guess AA is hoping that they can mold them into mindless drones who wont bail as soon as they realize what a crappy place this has become. But to the cubicle guys they think it makes financial sense, guess they never looked at Peoples Express.
Lloyd Grey
Advanced
- Feb 6, 2011
- 134
- 81
Are you saying the bid system is changing in DFW? Somebody give more details please.
You sir, need to get a clue about the teamsters. They lie, cheat and steal just to get you to vote for them, then PUFE, they are nowhere to be found, and none of their promices ever come true. Just ask a SWA mechanic, aan UAL mechanic, a CAL mechanic or a Horizon mechanic. Here is one thing to look at too. Since you all know there is a merger on the horizon you might very well want a union that will fight for your benefit during a merger. As we all know AMFA prevailed by a land slide in the integration nego's between AMFA and (guess who) the teamsters. The teamsters for a fact lost alot of money if they would have nego better. Just ask an AT guy how much money as well as retro pay the teamsters lost for ALL their members. The teamsters attorney got his a$$ trumped over and over by Seham (AMFA's attorney) as well as by the company, it was an embarrassment for him and the AT guys. So go ahead and vote the teamsters in, if you do you all get exactly what you deserve and we don't want to hear any whinning like the UAL/CAL mechanics are doing right now. BTW, there is a card drive to remove the teamsters at UAL/CAL right now. What does that tell you guys???
Kev3188
Veteran
If the new language calls for a 90 day rotation, what did the old language state? Also, at the risk of being flamed off the page, why is 90 days a bad thing (separate from the no-trading issue)?
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
I can't see where a 90 day rotation is allegedly cost advantageous.
If anything....One annual bid might do the trick.
Kev3188
Veteran
Well, that's part of why I was asking. For the company, I see zero cost advantage. If I squint, I can *maybe* see the idea of a crew being more efficient as they work together over time, but a good CC can figure out right away who has what strengths, and how to best utilize that.
On the employee side, I'm used to 180 day bids (we now bid 4x yearly at DL), so 90 seems really short, as opposed to really long.
On the employee side, I'm used to 180 day bids (we now bid 4x yearly at DL), so 90 seems really short, as opposed to really long.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #22
Flight schedules change on at least a seasonal basis... thus, the need to staff the airline accordingly.
Using the same staffing in September as for June means carrying alot of extra employees.
Realistically, in your situation Kev, does your bid change season to season?
I would think that for a medium to high seniority person either at AA or DL, what you can hold won't change. It will likely be the bottom 25% that might find their schedule changing - and the flex would be absorbed by part-time people or in DL's case ready reserves.
At AA, does the new contract - or TA - limit the ability of TWU represented groups including the ramp to trade away shifts w/o repayment? Not sure if mechanics could do it. IIRC, AA went after that w/ the FAs.
Using the same staffing in September as for June means carrying alot of extra employees.
Realistically, in your situation Kev, does your bid change season to season?
I would think that for a medium to high seniority person either at AA or DL, what you can hold won't change. It will likely be the bottom 25% that might find their schedule changing - and the flex would be absorbed by part-time people or in DL's case ready reserves.
At AA, does the new contract - or TA - limit the ability of TWU represented groups including the ramp to trade away shifts w/o repayment? Not sure if mechanics could do it. IIRC, AA went after that w/ the FAs.
Kev3188
Veteran
I get that. I'm asking because to me 90 seems short, but others have indicated it's much longer than what they have currently.
My own, or the station's in general?
Mine doesn't. My station's does change quite a bit overall, given the differing needs of summer vs. winter. The NW CBA mandated a minimum rebid of 2x yearly, though nothing precluded it from occurring more often. Locally, we used to use an informal rule of rebidding when the clocks changed, and that matched operational needs well. Bidding a 3rd time annually seems extraneous to me, and in my (our) case, isn't needed.
Maybe true, but a longer bid also gives the junior person some stability in their schedule, even if it's midnights w/ TW off.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #24
I completely agree that 90 days is not a long horizon to be able to plan your schedule and facing a change in schedule 4X/year creates a lot of instability in the schedule.
My point is simply that many airlines didn't change their flight schedules much between days of week or even greatly between schedules. CO in its BK became the most aggressive in modifying its schedule and then DL continued doing so even more.
I'm not really sure that the demand in alot of stations for 9 months of the year is substantially different but summer throughout the US is obviously much stronger and busier - plus it is when the majority of people want to take a vacation. For cities outside of areas w/ heavy leisure traffic, it would seem that a summer and non-summer schedule would probably be sufficient.
Many of the core cities in the midwest and SE have strong business and overall year round demand so those should be pretty stable cities - compared to Florida, the Pac NW and SW where demand is very peaked in certain times of year but falls off dramatically at other times.
I would imagine that there are people who would prefer a stable schedule ... but then for others that are right on the line and see their schedules change w/ every bid, they probably like the idea of getting a piece of something better even for part of the year.
I'm still interested in knowing how much AA station schedules will change - and I'm not sure that anyone can know at this point given that there is alot of bumping and station closing that will take place before it is all said and done.
My point is simply that many airlines didn't change their flight schedules much between days of week or even greatly between schedules. CO in its BK became the most aggressive in modifying its schedule and then DL continued doing so even more.
I'm not really sure that the demand in alot of stations for 9 months of the year is substantially different but summer throughout the US is obviously much stronger and busier - plus it is when the majority of people want to take a vacation. For cities outside of areas w/ heavy leisure traffic, it would seem that a summer and non-summer schedule would probably be sufficient.
Many of the core cities in the midwest and SE have strong business and overall year round demand so those should be pretty stable cities - compared to Florida, the Pac NW and SW where demand is very peaked in certain times of year but falls off dramatically at other times.
I would imagine that there are people who would prefer a stable schedule ... but then for others that are right on the line and see their schedules change w/ every bid, they probably like the idea of getting a piece of something better even for part of the year.
I'm still interested in knowing how much AA station schedules will change - and I'm not sure that anyone can know at this point given that there is alot of bumping and station closing that will take place before it is all said and done.
- Dec 21, 2002
- 321
- 77
Why are people suprised that the company is acting decisevly soon after the contract was voted in. You people in Tulsa didnt think you were going to get a free pass for doing the companys bidding did ya? Sometimes you dont get what you want, you get what you deserve and you deserve everything thats coming your way for screwing the rest of us.
Tex-Mech
Veteran
I've seen that written and talked about several times for the past 6 months. You guys have a letter in the back of the contract about some of your changes.
odie01
Veteran
- May 11, 2010
- 1,321
- 473
Karma's a MF !!!!! I feel sorry for the mechanics in Jonestown, their lack of leadership has forced everyone to take a drink of the kool aid.
odie, give it up AMFA is done, Tulsa will never have It
riceweevil
Advanced
- Jul 16, 2012
- 154
- 26
There is always a card drive going at some Airline because some people want choices.
Bloodhound
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 33
- 30
For the 19 years I've been at DFW, we've always had 90 day rotations and, for the most part, 7-day coverage. This is nothing new.....What am I misisng?
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