A Hub Once More

[PITbull]

PHL airport has been closed since 10 am.

Good to see the HUBS being used.
And I am thrilled out of my mind to see PIT being used to transfer the pax and their bags safely to their destinations.

We had big snow in PIT, but we are sailing along nicely on our end.

Love this airport; love the employees.....big time! B)

We here in PIT will always be the "mecca", and are definitely a legend in my mind.

 

[PITbull]

I don't understand this thinking.

Today PHL had a major snowstorm.  PIT didn't.  So PHL is messed up, and PIT is not.

Next week, PIT could have a major snowstorm, messing it up and causing diversions, while PHL may not.

Granted, on average, PHL is more messed up than PIT.  But today PHL is dealing with an anomaly.

[post="241528"][/post]​

Bear,

PIT had a major snow storm today. WE had snow approx 7 inches and still climbing, with Icey sleet.

PIT airport is always operating, no matter what.
Check the weather on the internet, you will see PIT was buried in snow.

Some f/as had to "cab" it to work. They were afraid to drive.

 

[PoorPropDriver]

******** ATC Delay and Flow Control Advisories ********
ATCSCC ADVZY 046 PHL/ZNY 01/22/2005 CDM GROUND DELAY PROGRAM
AIRPORT: PHL
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: DAS
ADL TIME: 1558Z
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 22/1600Z - 23/0259Z
PROGRAM RATE: 20
FLIGHTS INCLUDED: ALL CONTIGUOUS US DEPARTURES
SCOPE: (ALL+CZY_AP) ZSE ZAB ZLC ZFW ZLA ZAU ZMP ZDV ZKC ZID ZME ZMA
ZHU ZJX ZOB ZBW ZTL ZDC ZNY ZOA
CANADIAN AIRPORTS INCLUDED: CYHZ CYOW CYUL CYYZ
DELAY ASSIGNMENT TABLE APPLIES TO: ZNY
MAXIMUM DELAY: 345
AVERAGE DELAY: 195
REASON: WEATHER, SNOW
REMARKS: PHL GROUND STOP IS CANCELED INTO THIS GDP
221602-230359
05/01/22 16:09 FSB.//
ATCSCC ADVZY 097 PHL/ZNY 01/22/2005 CDM GDP CNX
AIRPORT: PHL
ADL TIME: 2123Z
GDP CNX PERIOD: 22/2123Z - 23/1826Z
REASON: WEATHER, SNOW
REMARKS: THE GDP IS CANCELLED, BUT THE GROUND STOP IS STILL IN
EFFECT. AIRPORT IS CLOSED.
222126-231926
05/01/22 21:28 FSB.//
ATCSCC ADVZY 001 PHL/ZNY 01/23/2005 CDM GDP CNX
AIRPORT: PHL
ADL TIME: 2358Z
GDP CNX PERIOD: 22/2358Z - 23/0610Z
REASON: WEATHER, SNOW/AIRPORT CLOSED
REMARKS: THE GROUND STOP IS CANCELLED DUE TO MINIMAL ARRIVAL DEMAND.
THE AIRPORT REMAINS CLOSED DUE TO SNOW.
230000-230710
05/01/23 00:01 FSB.//
ATCSCC ADVZY 016 PHL/ZNY 01/23/05 PHL AIRPORT STATUS
PHL AIRPORT AIRPORT HAS REOPENED ARRIVING AND DEPARTING RWY 9R. RWY
9L IS ANTICPATED TO RETURN APPROX 0300Z.
230122-230359
05/01/23 01:22 FSB.//
ATCSCC ADVZY 054 DTW/ZOB 01/22/2005 CDM GDP CNX
AIRPORT: DTW
ADL TIME: 1800Z
GDP CNX PERIOD: 22/1800Z - 23/0448Z
REASON: WEATHER, SNOW
REMARKS:
221804-230548
05/01/22 18:04 FSA.//

 

[PITbull]

Wind Chill factor presently in PIT -13F.

At game time tomorrow, predicted wind chill at -10F.

Two parts to this storm. First part fell already...6-7 inches in PIT.

Second system coming in, 2 more inches by 5 am Sunday.

All 4 runways have been open all day.

 

[BoeingBoy]

PITbull,

I haven't been through PIT for 9 months or so with all the cutback in flights, but do me a favor, please.....

I've been hearing some disturbing stories about the contract folks running the deicing pads these days. If you get deiced, take a moment or two and look out the windows afterward and make sure the wings are clean.....

Take care,

Jim

 

[AP Tech]

Very good point!!!! De-icing is all done by contractors in Pit. No sure what type of training they received, but I have noticed on a few different occasions planes leaving a pads not very clean. I also have to question the hold over times as I don't know how you get a good start time when person doing the left side of the A/C is spraying type 1 and the person on the left is halfway finished with type 4. I look back at when mechanics were responsible for deicing everything was documented, each boom along with the parker and the person in the control house had their employee number written on the report sheet. This all came down from the FAA when the pads opened, many times there were FAA observers in the control house. Just do yourself a favor and take the time to verify you A/C is clean before leaving the pads.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I don't understand this thinking.

Today PHL had a major snowstorm. PIT didn't. So PHL is messed up, and PIT is not.

You do not understand. PIT is STILL having a major storm (round 2 itself will be worse than PHL total.) PIT is not messed up, as you say. PHL is "messed up" on a clear fall day with calm winds and has 24 mile finals, ramp conjestion, and bad food in the terminal! Hey, this is a tempest in a teapot. Best to you all...we PIT people are just missing our past life (as I am sure all of you are in your airport, etc.)...cut us some slack. I was just pointing out what a great AIRPORT PIT is....and I always enjoyed flying with those crazy 8's and everyone else here. Best to you all. Greeter.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I've been hearing some disturbing stories about the contract folks running the deicing pads these days. If you get deiced, take a moment or two and look out the windows afterward and make sure the wings are clean.....

Take care,

Jim

Thanks for the heads up Jim. Thats pretty much been my operation all along. The great facility at PIT is only as good as its people. Not to get into some passe long winded discussion about company mechanics vs outsourced...but I have to use the example my wife so many times uses. If you are in a room full of kids, you are going to pay the most attention to your own...especially if a stressfull situation arises. It is human nature. I wish everyone involved in the care and servicing of my airplane had a vested interest. I remember my AF days, those few times, demanding a mechanic get on the plane with me for my trip across the pond (after a disagreement about service.) My bluff was called both times, as both the supervisor and mechanic showed up with their bags a few minutes later. I miss those days, and I fear we all, in the end, will too. Best to you Jim. Mark.

 

[bookmdano]

Almost everyone at Usair holds on to the past. PIT is history. PHL and CLT is where it's at. Good or bad. Change is the only constant in the airline industry. Get used to it. And by the way......Mother nature is to blame for this one..........Time to move forward. For those of you who HATE this company so damn much......please leave already. Your stay is no longer welcome. Those of us who care are fighting the fight.
Worth more? Educate yourself out of this place-you call HELL! :angry:

[post="241526"][/post]​

Just waiting for the warden to unlock the "freakin" gate, give us our possessions that we came in with, and our back salary for pressing license plates....but it seems that he can't even do that...so we'll stay...for as long as it takes.

 

[supercruiser]

Also, maybe someone flying international can answer this....would the extra 25 minutes or so of flight time from PIT(vs PHL) exclude any of our European destinations..because of fuel?

[post="241523"][/post]​

The fuel burn difference flying to PIT vs. PHL is negligible when coming back to the States on a transatlantic flight.

supercruiser

 

[supercruiser]

I've been hearing some disturbing stories about the contract folks running the deicing pads these days.

[post="241557"][/post]​

My experiences this winter have been the opposite. The contract folks seem to be overly cautious and super-thorough in PIT. The deice time is noticeably slower to the point of frustration as they do their thing. What use to take 10 min now takes 20. Had ice only on the tail from an airplane that came from the hangar the other day, and it took 15 min as they sprayed the wings etc, which didn't have a trace of contamination, even after we told them.

supercruiser

 

[a320av8r]

PHL closed for the first time in 9 years. Has reopened. I wouldn't say that is a bad record. considering how fast the snow fell.
Give the PHL folks there due.
LGA and BOS are closed too even now.

ABC news crew on Good Morning America (weekend) says they called Delta before they left and were told everything is operating on time, got to the airport and all are cancelled, Go Delta. "We love to fly when it snows".

 

[Bear96]

Bear,

PIT had a major snow storm today. WE had snow approx 7 inches and still climbing, with Icey sleet.

PIT airport is always operating, no matter what.
Check the weather on the internet, you will see PIT was buried in snow.

[post="241542"][/post]​

OK. I checked.

CLIMATE REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PITTSBURGH PA
306 AM EST SUN JAN 23 2005

...................................

...THE PITTSBURGH CLIMATE SUMMARY FOR JANUARY 22 2005...

CLIMATE NORMAL PERIOD 1971 TO 2000
CLIMATE RECORD PERIOD 1871 TO 2005

WEATHER ITEM OBSERVED TIME RECORD YEAR NORMAL DEPARTURE LAST
VALUE (LST) VALUE VALUE FROM YEAR
NORMAL
SNOWFALL (IN)
YESTERDAY 5.3 12.0 1966 0.4 4.9 0.6

ZONE FORECAST PRODUCT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PITTSBURGH PA
340 AM EST SUN JAN 23 2005

OHZ041-050-PAZ020-021-029-WVZ001>003-232200-
COLUMBIANA-JEFFERSON-BEAVER-ALLEGHENY-WASHINGTON-HANCOCK-BROOKE-OHIO-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...EAST LIVERPOOL...SALEM...COLUMBIANA...
EAST PALESTINE...WELLSVILLE...CALCUTTA...STEUBENVILLE...ALIQUIPPA...
BEAVER FALLS...ECONOMY...AMBRIDGE...NEW BRIGHTON...MONACA...BEAVER...
PITTSBURGH...WASHINGTON...CANONSBURG...DONORA...CALIFORNIA...
CHARLEROI...MONONGAHELA...MCMURRAY...TORONTO...CHESTER...NEWELL...
WEIRTON...WHEELING
340 AM EST SUN JAN 23 2005

...WIND CHILL ADVISORY TIL NOON...

.TODAY...A 40 PERCENT CHANCE OF SNOW SHOWERS THIS MORNING. PARTLY
CLOUDY THIS AFTERNOON. BRISK WITH HIGHS AROUND 17. NORTHWEST WINDS 15
TO 25 MPH. WIND CHILL 13 BELOW.
.TONIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY. LOWS AROUND 5. WEST WINDS 5 TO 10 MPH. WIND
CHILL 8 BELOW.
.MONDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A 40 PERCENT CHANCE OF SNOW SHOWERS. HIGHS
NEAR 25. WEST WINDS 10 TO 15 MPH.

So five inches of snow yesterday, and a chance of some snow showers this morning. Doesn't seem to match what you are saying ("buried"?), and seems like nothing compared to PHL, where they had about 12 inches in 12 hours and shut down for a few hours at the height of the storm.

Listen, I am not trying to say PHL is a shining example of efficiency. My MAIN POINT is that it is an unfair comparison to point to the worst weather day in years at PHL and use that as an example of how terrible things are there all the time, while comparing it to a day in PIT that wasn't nearly as bad. That's all.

Secondarily, the fact that PIT has less operational problems than PHL is not really that relevant. I am sure arid, low-traffic places like Edmonton and Amarillo have very few weather problems either. Does that mean it would be wise to build hubs there? And ORD seems like a terrible place to have a hub since they constantly have weather problems, yet the world's two largest airlines both maintain large hubs there and are viciously competitive in maintaining them against each other. Hmmm. And how about LHR. Why does BA maintain a hub in that disaster area? I am sure some isolated island in northern Scotland has fewer delays. BA is building a huge new terminal at LHR -- I guess they should build it on that rocky outcrop in Scotland instead, right?

More goes into selecting a hub than weather. A sizable wealthy local population is probably the most important thing.

 

[Bear96]

PIT is STILL having a major storm...

[post="241561"][/post]​

Really? Still? This morning, PIT is having a foot of snow? Hmmm ...

REGIONAL WEATHER ROUNDUP
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE
900 AM EST SUN JAN 23 2005

PAZ002>004-007>009-013>016-020>023-029>032-231500-
WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA

CITY SKY/WX TMP DP RH WIND PRES REMARKS
ERIE LGT SNOW 7 1 76 N17 30.25R VSB 3/4 WCI -12
MEADVILLE CLOUDY 3 -3 76 N10G20 30.15R HAZE WCI -12
FRANKLIN NOT AVBL
BEAVER COUNTY NOT AVBL
BUTLER NOT AVBL
PITTSBURGH MOSUNNY 4 -3 73 NW14 30.15R WCI -14

REGIONAL WEATHER ROUNDUP
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE
700 AM EST SUN JAN 23 2005

PAZ002>004-007>009-013>016-020>023-029>032-231300-
WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA

CITY SKY/WX TMP DP RH WIND PRES REMARKS
ERIE LGT SNOW 6 2 83 N16G24 30.17R FOG WCI -12
MEADVILLE MOCLDY 2 -4 76 N13G20 30.06R WCI -15
FRANKLIN NOT AVBL
BEAVER COUNTY PTCLDY 3 -2 78 NW14G26 30.08 WCI -15
BUTLER NOT AVBL
PITTSBURGH MOCLDY 3 -4 72 NW20G26 30.06R WCI -18

... (round 2 itself will be worse than PHL total.)

Really? See my previous post. PIT is forecasting a 40% chance of snow showers today.

PHL is "messed up" on a clear fall day with calm winds and has 24 mile finals, ramp conjestion, and bad food in the terminal!

I'm not disputing that. As I mentioned above, I am only saying it is not fair to use Saturday as an example of how PHL is every day.

 

[Capecod]

Not only is PIT a better airport to operate out of, they also have labor with a much better work ethic.

[post="241532"][/post]​

All true, to bad they don't have enough o&d for a hub to make any MONEY!!! Remember, this is a BUSINESS and PIT lost MONEY! -Cape