A Time And A Place Fo Everything

[Big Duke 6]

I would have agree with ya Twitch, on the hole east thing. But I'm suprised that company check pilots don't teach this to new hires. This type of recovery really works, regardless if you are doing prouduction work or are breaking out @ DH, not that the A/C would be that slow, but ya get the point. In the interest of flight safety don't you think that these recovery techinques should be covered, this is way more likely to occur than say an engine failure, no matter where you are flying. I'am not saying that it's right or wrong. I just think that there are a hundred ways to skin a cat. And maybe just maybe, we as an industry need to communicate more so that instructors and check pilots have all of the tools in there arsenal to adequately prepare pilots for real world situations, regardless if your in Bottonville or Revelstoke. I'am not trying to stir the pot, I'am simply asking a legitimate question to the indusry as a whole.

 

[twitch]

Couldn't agree more.....A point could be made that the guy's (girls) that don't spend all their time on the end of line may need to have the lesson reinforced more often cause they're not riding the bubble all the time and don't get the feel for that big drop. Also don't discount the number of training pilots/check pilots that stop in here now and again and may have already checked into the "NEW" procedure and will be passing on the info to their victims in the next training session. But I think the original question was to ask how soon that should happen in the "newbee's" initial training. I for one think it should be talked about early on and maybe briefed on how to stay well clear of the phenomenon but the actual instruction in the aircraft should be done late in the training by well qualified rehearsed instructors/training pilots.

twitch

 

[VERTICAL REF]

The first flight manual I ever read was the 47G2 manual which stated that for any tailrotor failure, autorotation was the corrective procedure. We all know that this is not the case with the jammed pedals in the hover, in flight and loss of thrust possibilities.

Think this is the same for Ring demonstration and recovery. Laterial recovery from the hover should be done with the same height/recoverable airspeed safety buffer built in, and should be part of the complete lesson on vor ring training. Ring recovery was first demonstrated to me at the 40 hour mark just prior to the introduction to sling training. 2000' agl was the start of the demonstration there ice floe!

Will have to agree with Duke on the company training. All recurrency and ppc's are done from the left seat. This includes 150' hover engine decel's for the twin pac, shut down and restart in flight of half the twin pac, 100', 100kts engine failures...we do not do power recoveries. Detailed Vortex ring and LTE included. Your company trainging should be tailored to suit your operational needs and demands of your company!

As a follow up, LTE should be discussed along with vortex ring. When you are in a nose high, tail low, quatering down wind situation LTE can be confused with the initial stages of vortex ring. After all it is just vortex ring of the tail rotor!

Too much for a 4 hour student, most definately! And not enough for the first time you get the s#$t up your back on the end of a line!

"Production junkies" instructing...oh boy!

 

[Big Duke 6]

Few, Glad to see somebody in this country on the same page. B)