407 you're right on all accounts.rop:
You guys apperently don't work Vertical reference for a living. <_< TD I have a great respect for you if you flew chokers in B47, Unfortunetly I'am not sure what A/C would have relied on the 400 lb bundle @ 60 kts to support it's logging operations. Again, I caution you in refering GTOW as having relevance. Students that might be transitioning to a bigger A/C should know that regardless of weight, if you fly an approach downwind with a high rate of descente, you will more than likely experience VRS. GTOW has little to do with VRS and has a lot to do with pilots knowing there flight profile. I agree that the heavier you are the worse it will be, but that has nothing to do with the what got the pilot there in the first place. I've flown extensive VR work with heavy's, mediums, intermediates and lights. Gross Take Off Weight has little to do with VRS, this condtion is usually a loss of situational awarness that has led the pilot into believeing that he/she has the world by the tail. I've flown alot of wrecks out, that would beg to differ. :bye: And don't move the collective, just hard laterial cyclic...and watch the results.
. I think we are now officially chasing our respective tails. This technique is by far the quickest recovery procedure , I'am very suprised as to why training schools and check pilots don't teach it, especially if you are working production longling in your daily operations. VR, dude if ya keep teachin' these guys all the tricks were both going to be in the soup line. Got your PM, and would have to totally agree, it's actually a little scary. twitch: You got it. We're not disagreeing with Big D as to how to get there or that GW is not the cause. It just makes it far easier to succumb. That's not too hard to understand. Moving on. Now for a real pissing contest Just kidding. I did however want ask the training community, Why these recovery techinques are not covered when teaching VRS. I know when I do recurrent VR training we always brief and execute a few to make the canadite realize that lateral cyclic is far more beneficial in minamizing distance over the ground, as well as reducing an altitude penalty. It is the most efficant way to get the helicopter into "Clean Air". The other question was left seat emergency training, if it's applicable to your fleet. I'am suprised how even very experiencd drivers get "helmet fire" when demonstrating a recovery procedure from the other seat. The company I work for does both, and for new hires this sometimes is there first exposure to this type of training. Why is this not taught earlier in there training, either at initial CPL(H) completion or on company recurrency. Our minimum requirement is 5000 hrs TT with an extensive VR background, and we still see pilot's trying to recover the old way. Now for TD's, and Twitch's benefit , I would like to clarify the question. Why is this technique not taught at lower levels of training. Or is Lateral cyclic recovery something totaly new to the "Flight training community". Afterall we are all trying to maintain a standard, either at the inital phase of training or at a company level are we not? This a very good example of not having the distance or altitude to recover with the conventional procedure. My applogies on the Quality of the photo. I have a much better picture of the 212's impact, but I'am having difficulty loading it. The intended landing was 15m below the wreckage, this company is no longer in business in case any of you are wondering. To provide a safe and efficant service to our customers is generally the mandate of most companys. The best safety device in any A/C is a well trained crew. B) Plus I don’t think that many companies make it a priority, it probably doesn’t even show on their training forms. From what I've seen over the years not many production drivers "settle down" to become instructors... Just my opinion of course.
