"aa Better Off In Bankruptcy"

[MaryLou]

Johnny Box Raider don't you have a tool box you got to break in! You feel cold and alone without your Shop Stewart security blanket!

Did Johnny get caught doing something bad? Did the company fire him as they should or did the TWU come to save the day? I did hear he is no longer an alt. steward, they showed him the democratic end of a petition! Who is Johnny and what's with the peanut butter? Smooth or Crunchy? Back to work Johnny like the AMFA men told you!

 

[twuer]

And still, noone coming to the defense of the almighty Delle-Femine!!!!!!


Just a lot of changing the subject and redirecting!!!!! Typical of you amfa wannabes!!!

You must be getting desperate. If I remember I already proved you were a liar back on page 4 and 5 of this thread usuing the very same letter you posted.



Remember this:

You attribute the quote aa woud have been better off in bankruptcy to Delle. Once again you misquote he wrote exactly the following:



If AA filed for bankruptcy then the company under section under 1114 had to sit down and negotiate with your union. You would have been in a better position, because you would have to show the bankruptcy judge that you were negotiating in good faith and would have come away with a better concessionary contract. I guess you blindly followed the twu and got the shaft.

No where in the letter does he state that AA would have been better off in bankruptcy.

I guess it gets kinda hard to remember which lies you tell after you tell so many. Then you go and post the very info which disproves your own lie.





And here you are after getting caught in the lie and your excuse for lying:



Dave, Dave, Dave. . .you hurt my feelings. . .such names. So I paraphrased a bit. The concept is still the same. It's really obvious. You know what he meant that is why you put up the defense with the name calling. You just showed your true colors (again) Dave. Not to mention that you have your head so far up his a** it's a wonder you can breath!! Everyone knows that Delle is a fake. That kool-aide has gotten to you too hasn't it??

Like you said. . . the members will follow Delle. Just like a bunch of Stepford Wives if you ask me. And you are definately leading the pack.


Sorry pal but I stand by my original statement. . .your name calling didn't work!!




Then I posted this:


have you noticed that when finally cornerd with their own evidence they finally have to admit the truth. I really laughed when he stated So I paraphrased a bit.


Which translates into


I took liberties with the truth.

I twisted the facts to fit my views.


I reinterpeted his stateement

Depends on what your definition of "parphrase" is



I LIED MY ASS OFF AND YOU CAUGHT ME



So you want us to defend him against a lie that you perpatrated. Why did it take so long for you to post on the subject again?Your last post on this subject was 4 days ago,the very topic you started. Whats the matter had to drink some liquid courage before posting again?

Hey Dissident,

It seems you missed my post as well where I had to school you wannabes who don't seem to understand English. . .

Now, read it slow so you can comprehend it, okay??. . .

(posted March 7th)
Well, I go to visit the mother-in-law and come back and see that you afma wannabes are still in denial. I as read back over Delle's comments it hits me. . .maybe insted of saying that AA would have been better off in BK then what I should have said was the TWU union member would have been better off in BK. You know, I do believe that this is much worse. Either way the message of what Delle said is clear. Let's look at it closely shall we. . .

"If AA filed (as in past tense, something that has taken place) for BK then the company. . .had to sit down and negotiate with your union."

Now, where are you confused??? He speaks of the company in BK.

Next. . .

"You would have been in a better position (the postion of BANKRUPTCY!!!!!!)because you would have to show the BK judge (why else would you need a BK judge unless you were IN BK) that you were negotiating in good faith and would have come away with a better concessionary contract."

Delle is clearly advocating that the "position" of BK would have been a better position for the union member. What part of that are you NOT getting?

And the sum up his remarks he adds this. . .

"I guess you blindly followed the TWU and got the shaft."

He indicates by this statement that negotiating with the company for a concessionary contract instead of allowing the company to enter BK is NOT the better way to go. I guess he thinks that "the shaft" that he says we got is worse than what the UAL members got in BK or what AA would have gotten as a result of BK, which is maintenance base closings, huge layoffs, outsourcing, a hit on the retiree benefits and on medical costs, not to mention not being off the hook from BK if all those things didn't make AA profitable. Kind of sounds like what Delle has gotten accomplished at NWA. I see a pattern here.

So, are you defending this or not???? If you are, it's no wonder that you are following Delle blindly because you simply can't understand english!!!

The fact that Delle takes the position that we should not have agreed unless there were snap-back provisions indicates his intent to push the company INTO BK. You guys have failed to provide any BK proceedings or proof that any bargaining agent in the airline industry has ever received snap-backs in BK. Delle doesn't have a clue as to what he even says. . .he just says it because it sounds good. The reason companies refuse to agree to snap-backs in these types of cases is right before your eyes. They know that they are simply NOT awarded by a BK judge therefore why should they give them up willingly?

So, I stand by my statement that Delle thinks we, the union members, would have been in a better position if AA had entered bankruptcy.

Now, did you get that or do you need an english tutor?? Maybe Delle could help you!!

Still no defense?????

It is actions like these and of amfa's lack of ability to protect the profession that will cause amfa to lose IF a vote is ever taken. (We all knew amfa would file. The crying from amfa comes next!! ) People are smarter than you are giving them credit for and can see right through amfa's true colors!! Amfa has NO track record to go on, just empty promises of protecting the AMT. Why don't you ask the air craft cleaners what they think of Delle and his contracts????? A pretty big event there!!! Stay tuned for more information as it becomes available!!! I would suggest making up a good story to tell all the cleaners whose jobs would be at risk!!! You are going to need to do something for damage control because Delle and the boys in all their wisdom have caused some MORE damage!!!!

 

[The Dissident]

Those lies you keep on telling keep on getting bigger andbigger. Your lies border on the pathalogical.I guess I'd be scared too if I was gonna loose my cushy twu salary.Will you be having a yard sale to sell off all your stuff after you get back to the floor? Whats the matter afraid to work under the conditions you negotiated for us?Hope you remember where you left your tool box!!!

 

[twuer]

Those lies you keep on telling keep on getting bigger andbigger. Your lies border on the pathalogical.I guess I'd be scared too if I was gonna loose my cushy twu salary.Will you be having a yard sale to sell off all your stuff after you get back to the floor? Whats the matter afraid to work under the conditions you negotiated for us?Hope you remember where you left your tool box!!!

I'd say by the tone of that post there Dissident I won that argument!!!!

By the way, I'm rank and file just like you. Thought you had me didn't ya'???

 

[Bob Owens]

It seems you missed my post as well where I had to school you wannabes who don't seem to understand English. . .


Dont worry about us, save your efforts for CIO. Unless of course you have written him off as beyond hope.


By the way what part of this contract did we negotiate? Was the $660million a negotiated figure? Was the thousands of layoffs a negotiated figure? Isnt it true that the "negotiations" actually consisted of locking these guys up on company property for hours on end with each other, and not with the company? Isnt it true that the proposals were taken by Little to the company who sight unseen to the committee rejected them and continued to reject them until the only options that were left were the ones that the company and Little originally wanted in the first place?Exactly what was negotiated? How we would give them the $660 million? Well giving up the company pay for union officials would have been the best start, that would have knocked it down to $557 million. They are going to lose it now anyway.

One thing that we do know for sure is that for all those who are getting that share of the $3 million that the company pays for UB is that Bankruptcy would have been worse. They would have lost as much as $72,000 a year and had to scrape by on a mere six figure salary. As far as the rest of us we did worse than both UAL and USAIR as far as our pay and benifits. AA was the party that rejected shrinking the company, they rejected the Presidents coucils proposal to keep the contract but layoff instead.


The logic that you are using, that we are better off agreeing to substandard wages and benifits than to face up against the company's threats is very similar to the logic that strikebreakers use, that you are better off working for less than to risk your job fighting for more. The fact is that the AFL-CIO unions let us all down. We all knew what was coming yet they did nothing to stop it. Before UAL went to court I said that we should make it clear that the first union contract that is abrogated and every union member across this industry should walk off the job. Its a threat, just as legal as all the companys threats. It would have given us leverage and the opportunity to bring our case to the people. That's what unions are supposed to do. Take bold steps and protect what they have gained. Join together with other workers for a common cause. Thats what we are told to expect from being in the AFL-CIO-mutual support. Well what happened? Maybe it has to do with something unions are not supposed to do-accept $3 million a year in financial suport from the company. Maybe that answers my question now doesnt it?

The fact is that our unions leaders have no reason to be bold. They live quite well with their double dipping and all. And they cant be held accountable either. Well guess what? The day of judgement and settling up is coming upon you! The crooks of the TWU will finally be brought to justice at the ballott box. Thats right, their greatest fears-a vote, accountability, democracy are about to appear before them!

 

[The Dissident]

I'd say by the tone of that post there Dissident I won that argument!!!!

By the way, I'm rank and file just like you. Thought you had me didn't ya'???

The only thing you have won is the liar of the year award. Keep swimmin in self denial that the twu will save you and is looking out for your best intrests. If they were they would not have rolled over like they did.You say your rank and file. The only people I have seen who are rank and file and fiercely loyal to the twu are the chronic screwups who have lost their job and the twu got it back for them.Are you one of those self loathing individuals ?

 

[twuer]

I'd say by the tone of that post there Dissident I won that argument!!!!

By the way, I'm rank and file just like you. Thought you had me didn't ya'???

The only thing you have won is the liar of the year award. Keep swimmin in self denial that the twu will save you and is looking out for your best intrests. If they were they would not have rolled over like they did.You say your rank and file. The only people I have seen who are rank and file and fiercely loyal to the twu are the chronic screwups who have lost their job and the twu got it back for them.Are you one of those self loathing individuals ?

The only people I have seen who are rank and file and fiercely loyal to the twu are the chronic screwups who have lost their job and the twu got it back for them.Are you one of those self loathing individuals ?

I am sooo glad to hear how you feel about your union brethren Dissident. Let me guess, you will be one of the first in line to try to get a leadership position if amfa get's in???? Well, don't hold your breath brother, because the TWU is not going anywhere!! What is it they need 50% plus 1 to bring it to a vote??? HMMMM?? Think they have that??? Time will tell. . .

 

[Johnny Lunchbox]

I went from an educated Aircraft Mechanic in the IAM at NWA to a Laid Off AMFA Technician who's out of Unemployment, creditors crawling up my behind, two months behind on my mortgage, had to sell my car and buy a Junker and for everyone's information, there aren't any decent jobs out there. The only job skills needed today are being able to handle a spatula and a burger. Thanks for wrecking my life AMFA! Dell, I hope you rot in hell.

BK anyone?

 

[James T. Kirk]

Name: Joey
Employer: Laid off from NWA
Location: St Paul
Email: To "Still IAM at Heart"
Date: Monday, March 15, 2004
Time: 08:20 PM


Comments
Gamble? How dare you insinuate that what I did was gamble! I've never gambled in my life and I didn't gamble when I decided not to move after I was ILLEGALLY laid off. That's right Brother! AMFA told me that NWA laying me off was illegal and that the company would lose this in arbitration. John Roby and Steve MacFarlane and Jim Atkinson personally told me that I would be back to work as soon AMFA got my grievance arbitrated. So I didn't gamble! AMFA LIED to me!!!! Is it ok for AMFA to lie to me? Mathews actually told me that I might as well suck up the severance and unemployment while staying home, because he and the Seehams would certainly win my grievance and have me back at work before that ran out. Hello, it RAN OUT! I was mislead. That's not my fault.

 

[twuer]

Just a bit of BK reality. . .



Posted on Fri., Mar. 19, 2004

United postpones exit from Chapter 11

IT SAYS KEY ISSUES REMAIN UNSETTLED

By Dave Carpenter

Associated Press


CHICAGO - United Airlines said Thursday it will take longer than planned to get out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy, telling federal bankruptcy court it would be premature to emerge by June 30 as intended since several critical issues are still unsettled.

The nation's No. 2 carrier did not cite a new target date but said it expects to be able to exit bankruptcy sometime this summer if it receives a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee soon and if Congress approves pending legislation granting airlines pension relief.

Despite restructuring efforts that have made it a ``stronger and more sustainable company,'' United said, much work remains to be done and some aspects of the timing are beyond its control.

``United needs to take the time necessary to complete its restructuring methodically and systematically, rather than emerge prematurely,'' the airline said in a filing on the eve of its monthly bankruptcy court hearing.

Airline analyst Ray Neidl of Blaylock and Partners said the delay underscores the importance of United's unresolved issues. ``The bottom line is they need to get that unfunded pension liability issue solved before they can get the loan guarantee,'' he said.

United said when it filed for Chapter 11 in December 2002 -- after incurring more than two years of heavy losses -- that it expected to spend about 18 months in bankruptcy. It spent 2003 slashing labor costs, negotiating new aircraft leases and obtaining $2 billion in financing from JPMorgan Chase and Citigroup, and told the court in January it was on track for a June 30 exit.

But restructuring efforts have since stalled.

The Air Transportation Stabilization Board, which rejected United's bid for a federal loan guarantee just before it filed for bankruptcy, has not ruled on its 3-month-old request for a $1.6 billion guarantee. United's exit financing hinges on the loan guarantee being approved.

United also is in urgent need of pension relief before it can emerge and is hoping for congressional passage within the next month of a bill that would effectively grant airlines a two-year delay in pension payments. Under current law, United parent UAL faces $4.8 billion in required payments to its pension plan trusts by the end of 2008.

A cash crunch for United and other carriers has been worsened lately by a sharp jump in the cost of jet fuel, the airline's second-biggest expense after labor. Jet fuel now costs more than $1.03 a gallon, up 50 percent from two years ago -- an increase costing United hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Uncertainty continues to haunt UAL and those who are left to take the brunt of the destruction!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Just a bit of BK reality. . .



Posted on Fri., Mar. 19, 2004

United postpones exit from Chapter 11

IT SAYS KEY ISSUES REMAIN UNSETTLED

By Dave Carpenter

Associated Press


CHICAGO - United Airlines said Thursday it will take longer than planned to get out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy, telling federal bankruptcy court it would be premature to emerge by June 30 as intended since several critical issues are still unsettled.

The nation's No. 2 carrier did not cite a new target date but said it expects to be able to exit bankruptcy sometime this summer if it receives a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee soon and if Congress approves pending legislation granting airlines pension relief.

Despite restructuring efforts that have made it a ``stronger and more sustainable company,'' United said, much work remains to be done and some aspects of the timing are beyond its control.

``United needs to take the time necessary to complete its restructuring methodically and systematically, rather than emerge prematurely,'' the airline said in a filing on the eve of its monthly bankruptcy court hearing.

Airline analyst Ray Neidl of Blaylock and Partners said the delay underscores the importance of United's unresolved issues. ``The bottom line is they need to get that unfunded pension liability issue solved before they can get the loan guarantee,'' he said.

United said when it filed for Chapter 11 in December 2002 -- after incurring more than two years of heavy losses -- that it expected to spend about 18 months in bankruptcy. It spent 2003 slashing labor costs, negotiating new aircraft leases and obtaining $2 billion in financing from JPMorgan Chase and Citigroup, and told the court in January it was on track for a June 30 exit.

But restructuring efforts have since stalled.

The Air Transportation Stabilization Board, which rejected United's bid for a federal loan guarantee just before it filed for bankruptcy, has not ruled on its 3-month-old request for a $1.6 billion guarantee. United's exit financing hinges on the loan guarantee being approved.

United also is in urgent need of pension relief before it can emerge and is hoping for congressional passage within the next month of a bill that would effectively grant airlines a two-year delay in pension payments. Under current law, United parent UAL faces $4.8 billion in required payments to its pension plan trusts by the end of 2008.

A cash crunch for United and other carriers has been worsened lately by a sharp jump in the cost of jet fuel, the airline's second-biggest expense after labor. Jet fuel now costs more than $1.03 a gallon, up 50 percent from two years ago -- an increase costing United hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Uncertainty continues to haunt UAL and those who are left to take the brunt of the destruction!!

Funny but my friend from UAL still has all his holidays, vacations, double time etc. He will make thousands more than I will.

Should I consider myself lucky not to be him?


I just watched the Team TWU video. I heard Kevin Hammock (hammock, isnt that something that you lay around on instead of doing work?) talk about "AMFAs willingness to sacrifice the jobs of many to save the wages of the few". Hmm, He didnt mention how the International was willing to sacrifice the jobs of many, and the wages of all to keep their $3 million company donation. Do you suppose that he just forgot?

Another thing. Since this was obviously a 514 project, howcome Linda Dill did all the speaking? How come they only let Randy McDonald get around 5 seconds on the whole tape? Delle had more time on the tape than McDonald. Shouldnt Randy, as your President have been the primary commentator?

 

[Decision 2004]

This whole thread is based on lies.

Here is a video clip of Delle-Femine addressing AA Bankruptcy.

Do you believe video - or TWU Lies?

 

[twuer]

Yeh, yeh, yeh. And we have all now seen Delle tell a bold face lie right to his supporters regarding the representation at the Braniff bankruptcy hearings. . .on video!!


Seems that Delle just can't keep his stories strait!!!



Does anyone have a Delle-Femine signature on any BK document from Braniff??? I sure would like to see it if you do!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Yeh, yeh, yeh. And we have all now seen Delle tell a bold face lie right to his supporters regarding the representation at the Braniff bankruptcy hearings. . .on video!!


Seems that Delle just can't keep his stories strait!!!



Does anyone have a Delle-Femine signature on any BK document from Braniff??? I sure would like to see it if you do!!!

Well I work with someone from Braniff II. She says that the TWU is lying and that they got their money before everyone else. Her name is Eve Stewart.

So Delle says this is so, another person who I know says that this is so ,but I have someone who hides his name behind an alias saying that both these people are wrong.

Did you work at Branniff II?

Can you at least present any evidence to support your claim? Why should we give your statement any credibility? Linda Dill claimed to have proof but failed to produce it in the video.

 

[twuer]

Just a bit of BK reality. . .



Posted on Fri., Mar. 19, 2004

United postpones exit from Chapter 11

IT SAYS KEY ISSUES REMAIN UNSETTLED

By Dave Carpenter

Associated Press


CHICAGO - United Airlines said Thursday it will take longer than planned to get out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy, telling federal bankruptcy court it would be premature to emerge by June 30 as intended since several critical issues are still unsettled.

The nation's No. 2 carrier did not cite a new target date but said it expects to be able to exit bankruptcy sometime this summer if it receives a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee soon and if Congress approves pending legislation granting airlines pension relief.

Despite restructuring efforts that have made it a ``stronger and more sustainable company,'' United said, much work remains to be done and some aspects of the timing are beyond its control.

``United needs to take the time necessary to complete its restructuring methodically and systematically, rather than emerge prematurely,'' the airline said in a filing on the eve of its monthly bankruptcy court hearing.

Airline analyst Ray Neidl of Blaylock and Partners said the delay underscores the importance of United's unresolved issues. ``The bottom line is they need to get that unfunded pension liability issue solved before they can get the loan guarantee,'' he said.

United said when it filed for Chapter 11 in December 2002 -- after incurring more than two years of heavy losses -- that it expected to spend about 18 months in bankruptcy. It spent 2003 slashing labor costs, negotiating new aircraft leases and obtaining $2 billion in financing from JPMorgan Chase and Citigroup, and told the court in January it was on track for a June 30 exit.

But restructuring efforts have since stalled.

The Air Transportation Stabilization Board, which rejected United's bid for a federal loan guarantee just before it filed for bankruptcy, has not ruled on its 3-month-old request for a $1.6 billion guarantee. United's exit financing hinges on the loan guarantee being approved.

United also is in urgent need of pension relief before it can emerge and is hoping for congressional passage within the next month of a bill that would effectively grant airlines a two-year delay in pension payments. Under current law, United parent UAL faces $4.8 billion in required payments to its pension plan trusts by the end of 2008.

A cash crunch for United and other carriers has been worsened lately by a sharp jump in the cost of jet fuel, the airline's second-biggest expense after labor. Jet fuel now costs more than $1.03 a gallon, up 50 percent from two years ago -- an increase costing United hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Uncertainty continues to haunt UAL and those who are left to take the brunt of the destruction!!

Funny but my friend from UAL still has all his holidays, vacations, double time etc. He will make thousands more than I will.

Should I consider myself lucky not to be him?


I just watched the Team TWU video. I heard Kevin Hammock (hammock, isnt that something that you lay around on instead of doing work?) talk about "AMFAs willingness to sacrifice the jobs of many to save the wages of the few". Hmm, He didnt mention how the International was willing to sacrifice the jobs of many, and the wages of all to keep their $3 million company donation. Do you suppose that he just forgot?

Another thing. Since this was obviously a 514 project, howcome Linda Dill did all the speaking? How come they only let Randy McDonald get around 5 seconds on the whole tape? Delle had more time on the tape than McDonald. Shouldnt Randy, as your President have been the primary commentator?

Ask the 6100 laid off workers what benefits they still have Bob. How about asking the retirees about their medical benefits that are liable to go up to $800 monthly. It's been well established by you and others on these boards that you could give a rat's butt about the people that hit the street because of amfa's representation and/or influence.

Oh and Bob. . .what's this about. . .
I heard Kevin Hammock (hammock, isnt that something that you lay around on instead of doing work?)

Aren't you one of the ones who complains about the childish behavior that goes on here?? What the hell is that???? Making fun of someones name?????

Nice!!

And Linda Dill didn't do all of the talking. Weren't you watching closely enough. Lots of folks talked.

And about the $3 million you keep bringing up. Do you have solid proof of this (not what Bob THINKS!!) and if you do will you produce it for all of us to see??

Delle had more time on the tape than McDonald.

That was the best part of the video. . .catching your almighty leader in a lie. And he did it right to the peoples faces. What a man!!!! I guess Delle needs a little time to get his LIES across so that they are believable. Good thing Wildermouth and McCormick and Harvery were there to shut him up. Did you notice that at first Delle wanted the person who made the comment about the Braniff BK issue to come in and then he and his cronies said NO, NO, NO!!!!! I guess they didn't want Delle to look stupid in front of his faithful followers. WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!