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There is something wrong or alarming with my mindset and that of others left at MCIE? Please continue this line of reasoning.
Aa Insourcing Dl Heavy Maint?
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There is something wrong or alarming with my mindset and that of others left at MCIE? Please continue this line of reasoning.
MCI transplant
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<_< No seed there's nothing wrong at all! In fact our own mindset's are quit semilar. What I was trying to convay is the fact that unlike Bob, or Buck, we have more pressing matters at hand at the moment! Keeping our jobs!! It's one thing to press for change when you know your in a relatively secure position, another when your world is drastically changing before your eyes, with little security seen in the future!!!! 😉 I hope I'm making sense here????seed said:
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MCI transplant said:
You have no idea what I am doing. I attempt everyday to ensure that we retain our jobs and that we do so without anymore concessions. I had no idea that you of all people would listen to the fear the TWU spreads. What is wrong with keeping our jobs ( including yours ) and doind so without further wage and benefit cuts?
Checking it Out
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Buck since you believe in wage reductions for some and have admitted it. I think you are straight out lying. This line of thinking does not work anymore! (Tell them what they want to hear mentality) Amfa preaches this and has backfired big time! I think you need to go to counseling to get rid of the cult (brainwashed)mentality!
The Unions and AA need to keep up the great job at AA! Together we can overcome the adversities!
The Unions and AA need to keep up the great job at AA! Together we can overcome the adversities!
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The twu International unelected officers are the original believers in wage and benefit reductions, which has been proven for over 23 years, culminating in the most concessionary contract in a 50+ year history. The twu International promotes the failed "concessions for jobs (dues)" theory, where as the pay cuts and concessions are for the lowly workers, not the unelected, unaccountable twu International criminals, who give themselves raises while their members suffer.Checking it Out said:
Flash, your brain is as fried as your turkey neck. I seem to recall your embarrassment when you were caught lying at a AMFA meeting recently. You sat there like a coward and did not even attempt to defend your position...not even a squeak out of you. However, you'll come here and run your lying mouth because you can hide. 😛h34r:
You are a typical company union lackey, you believe what ever lies your twu handlers tell you, then you regurgitate the lies over and over again. No matter how many times they are refuted with facts, you still believe them.
If anyone is brainwashed, its you Flash. Of course, that twu frontal lobotomy didn't help you either. 😉
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Buck said:
Ken MacTiernan
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Checking it Out said:
coward, the unions (?) and the company can overcome the adversities?
rotfwmps! Can the membership of the twu overcome the lies & half truths that spew from the keyboards of those afraid to identify themselves as twu supporters? Can the twu membership overcome the unelected twu international officials regarding the fact that these individuals can not be removed by the membership? Can the twu membership overcome the twu's inept ways? I am talking about all the dead members that were included in our craft & class.
Can we overcome the promised FULL REVOTE that was never delivered?
MCI transplant said:
About the worst that can happen to you guys is your standard of living comes down to ours.
In the meantime you still have recall rights.
Maybe that could explain why we seem indifferent to your plight.
Unemployment is at 5%. Even if you lose your job you will get another. Maybe it wont provide you what you are used to but comparatively speaking you will probably still be more financially secure than the mechanic in New York or LAX that's still working.
A few of your former coworkers who just started here this week are finding that out now. Some of the guys from STL came, stayed a while, then decided to leave their AA job. It cost them too much to live here, even when they shared basement apartments with 2 or three others guys at $1500/month. Another guy from DFW took a demotion to OSM to go back to DFW, he figured even with the demotion he would have more money at the end of the week.
The rate of people quitting is building. Each year puts us closer to point where our topped out pay is closer to starting pay in a comparable field. One where we could be home on holidays and weekends. Several guys that were not in danger of getting laid off have already quit and many others are working on it. Two guys that recently left to go to Con Ed did take a small paycut to start there (these guys are in their 40s earning salaries that were originally meant for new hires who are typically in their early 20s)but report that OT is plentiful, their take home pay is more and they enjoy being home on the holidays and weekends.
We may have kept our jobs but might be forced to quit because it doesnt pay enough anymore. I'd rather face a layoff with the chance of coming back to a good job than see my job deteriorate to the point that after 25 years I can no longer afford to do what I liked doing.
Lets say that the company decides to close MCI. Chances are you could find a job either outside the industry or even in the industry that will pay you $17/hr. At that rate you guys will still enjoy a higher standard of living than we do at $30. I'm not making this up, its easy enough to find COLA calculators that give you this information.
What you guys seem to be forgetting is that not every place is like MCI where an airline job is considered to be a very good job. Out on the line we make the same money as you but have the drawbaack of working shifts, weekends and holidays in a place where things cost much, much more. We lost holiday and shift pay so you guys wouldnt have to take as big of a paycut. So we took a bigger cut than you guys did and we could afford it even less. We lost $1000 for shift and around $5000 for the holidays alone.
In a few short years the airlines will be complaining of a shortage of workers, especially at the coasts, where the traffic is generated.
I think that the company will continue to shrink MCI and use them to fill in the vacancies created by workers who are quitting. If you want ato keep your jobs you will be able, but you will have to go to either the Northeast or West Coast.
What we are dealing with will pass. There will come a time when they need more mechanics. This industry has always seen layoffs, bankruptcies etc. The trick is to make as much as you can while you are working.When demand for our skills in this industry returns shouldnt we have a union in place that can maximize our leverage, or should we stick with a company friendly union that gives concessions even in the best of times?
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Checking it Out said:
I never said I believe in the TWU practice of wage and benefit give backs. What I said was that those particpating in areas such as Continuos Improvement that do not use their A&P License should not receive license pay like their OSM brother and sisters.
The only adversity we need to overcome is the TWU and their policy of concessions. This is a fact that ever as dumb as you are cannot deny.
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<_< Bob---- Thanks for the insight of life in the big City!! It gives anyone thinking of going your way something to think about!! Unlike the people you were talking about the age group on this RIF is early to mid fifties!! Their options are as follows: 1. Retire.--- TWA's retirement, vested at age 55! (Many too young at time of buyout!) IAM pension fund, $157@ month (Must be complely out of aircraft industry!) American Airlines ( 4 years, first year not counted because we were TWA LLC!) Approx. $400@ month! S/S too young!!!! Total income aprox.$557@ month (This is not an option!) 2. Relocate.---- (bump the system) Only given the chooses of JFK, La Guardia, or SFO!!! Even though there are people with less Seniority in STL, no openings, not offered! Senority for these people is back to March 1986! What's your senority Bob? Also relocation money with held! 3. Go to the street.------ In many cases this is the option most are taking! But at Age 50-55, jobs are hard to find! Their best bet is to try and hold out for a recall that may never come! Ramano made the statement that if they got the F100 contract he would have to send two lines of MD80's back to MCI! Well, guess what? He Lied! The MD80 lines (exTWA Aircraft) are the ones that were originally given us in exchange for the 737s! Then taken back to Tulsa to save jobs there!( At our expense!) Aprox. 300 grevances were written by people going out the door here on that issue! Their waiting to be answeered by an Arbertrator!!!These are the same people that told Mangement that there would be no further talks on concessions until "The people up north are gone!" So we now have an 767 ,"C" chk , that was to be finnished up the same time these same people went out the door! Well for some strange reason it has fallen on it's A$$!!!! My, Oh my! I wonder why???
MCI transplant,Jun 15 2005, 04:22 PM]
<_< Bob---- Thanks for the insight of life in the big City!! It gives anyone thinking of going your way something to think about!! Unlike the people you were talking about the age group on this RIF is early to mid fifties!!
Yes, when Pan Am and EAL went out AA hired quite a few guys in their 50s.One of the reasons why I want to see us all end up in one union is so that we can try to establish industry seniority so what I saw happen to those guys is not what happens to us.
Their options are as follows: 1. Retire.--- TWA's retirement, vested at age 55! (Many too young at time of buyout!) IAM pension fund, $157@ month (Must be complely out of aircraft industry!)
I've heard about your pension situation from the guys we have here. But didnt you give that up in 1992? If you had struck instead of rolling over you would have 13 years in at AA or some other employer instead of funding Ichanns nest egg. Thats the future we all seem to be facing. Unwilling to fight for what was fought for years ago and in the end being worse off for it. A year at most of unemployment then but maybe you would have had a pension to look forward to now.
Whats with the IAM pension? Why do you have to be out of the industry?
American Airlines ( 4 years, first year not counted because we were TWA LLC!)
We all lost the first year. We were told that you guys didnt lose it, I believe you.Never even considered the LLC angle. It figures that they found some way of screwing you out of the year like they did to us, however we were led to believe otherwise.
Approx. $400@ month! S/S too young!!!! Total income aprox.$557@ month (This is not an option!) 2. Relocate.---- (bump the system) Only given the chooses of JFK, La Guardia, or SFO!!!
You can thank the TWU for that. I have no doubt that it was a deliberate plan of the TWU and the company to hit those stations the hardest in case of RIFS. Maybe its just a coincidence that those stations have always been the most militant. Whatever they gave you guys should have been systemwide. If 25% was the number it should have been 25% everywhere.
Even though there are people with less Seniority in STL, no openings, not offered! Senority for these people is back to March 1986! What's your senority Bob?
June 1986.
Also relocation money with held!
The relocation payout is for protected employees. Thank Little for that. Perhaps if he had pushed to have you guys brought under that when he gave away the store, after all like the TWU says "you've got to give and take, thats negotiations"(although in 2003 the said "We are not in the position to ask for anything", Local 562 requested to have the Part Time language taken out) MCI would not be getting hit as hard as they are.
With such a senior station that means you are the most expensive station. More vacation, more sick time and if they RIF there they save the $12500 per employee. So its not the red hair that motivates what they are doing, its the greenbacks.
3. Go to the street.------ In many cases this is the option most are taking! But at Age 50-55, jobs are hard to find! Their best bet is to try and hold out for a recall that may never come! Ramano made the statement that if they got the F100 contract he would have to send two lines of MD80's back to MCI! Well, guess what? He Lied! The MD80 lines (exTWA Aircraft) are the ones that were originally given us in exchange for the 737s! Then taken back to Tulsa to save jobs there!( At our expense!)
Sure, because much of the work will be done by much lower paid OSMs or mechanics that are younger who have less vacation, sick time etc.
Aprox. 300 grevances were written by people going out the door here on that issue! Their waiting to be answeered by an Arbertrator!!!
Well I hope they have a lawyer. Remember the Arbitrator sits between the company and the TWU. If both sides of the panel agree I doubt he will rule in their favor. He works for the TWU and the company, not the worker.
These are the same people that told Mangement that there would be no further talks on concessions until "The people up north are gone!"
Tell me more. What people up North?
So we now have an 767 ,"C" chk , that was to be finnished up the same time these same people went out the door! Well for some strange reason it has fallen on it's A$$!!!! My, Oh my! I wonder why???
Latent unionism?
<_< Bob---- Thanks for the insight of life in the big City!! It gives anyone thinking of going your way something to think about!! Unlike the people you were talking about the age group on this RIF is early to mid fifties!!
Yes, when Pan Am and EAL went out AA hired quite a few guys in their 50s.One of the reasons why I want to see us all end up in one union is so that we can try to establish industry seniority so what I saw happen to those guys is not what happens to us.
Their options are as follows: 1. Retire.--- TWA's retirement, vested at age 55! (Many too young at time of buyout!) IAM pension fund, $157@ month (Must be complely out of aircraft industry!)
I've heard about your pension situation from the guys we have here. But didnt you give that up in 1992? If you had struck instead of rolling over you would have 13 years in at AA or some other employer instead of funding Ichanns nest egg. Thats the future we all seem to be facing. Unwilling to fight for what was fought for years ago and in the end being worse off for it. A year at most of unemployment then but maybe you would have had a pension to look forward to now.
Whats with the IAM pension? Why do you have to be out of the industry?
American Airlines ( 4 years, first year not counted because we were TWA LLC!)
We all lost the first year. We were told that you guys didnt lose it, I believe you.Never even considered the LLC angle. It figures that they found some way of screwing you out of the year like they did to us, however we were led to believe otherwise.
Approx. $400@ month! S/S too young!!!! Total income aprox.$557@ month (This is not an option!) 2. Relocate.---- (bump the system) Only given the chooses of JFK, La Guardia, or SFO!!!
You can thank the TWU for that. I have no doubt that it was a deliberate plan of the TWU and the company to hit those stations the hardest in case of RIFS. Maybe its just a coincidence that those stations have always been the most militant. Whatever they gave you guys should have been systemwide. If 25% was the number it should have been 25% everywhere.
Even though there are people with less Seniority in STL, no openings, not offered! Senority for these people is back to March 1986! What's your senority Bob?
June 1986.
Also relocation money with held!
The relocation payout is for protected employees. Thank Little for that. Perhaps if he had pushed to have you guys brought under that when he gave away the store, after all like the TWU says "you've got to give and take, thats negotiations"(although in 2003 the said "We are not in the position to ask for anything", Local 562 requested to have the Part Time language taken out) MCI would not be getting hit as hard as they are.
With such a senior station that means you are the most expensive station. More vacation, more sick time and if they RIF there they save the $12500 per employee. So its not the red hair that motivates what they are doing, its the greenbacks.
3. Go to the street.------ In many cases this is the option most are taking! But at Age 50-55, jobs are hard to find! Their best bet is to try and hold out for a recall that may never come! Ramano made the statement that if they got the F100 contract he would have to send two lines of MD80's back to MCI! Well, guess what? He Lied! The MD80 lines (exTWA Aircraft) are the ones that were originally given us in exchange for the 737s! Then taken back to Tulsa to save jobs there!( At our expense!)
Sure, because much of the work will be done by much lower paid OSMs or mechanics that are younger who have less vacation, sick time etc.
Aprox. 300 grevances were written by people going out the door here on that issue! Their waiting to be answeered by an Arbertrator!!!
Well I hope they have a lawyer. Remember the Arbitrator sits between the company and the TWU. If both sides of the panel agree I doubt he will rule in their favor. He works for the TWU and the company, not the worker.
These are the same people that told Mangement that there would be no further talks on concessions until "The people up north are gone!"
Tell me more. What people up North?
So we now have an 767 ,"C" chk , that was to be finnished up the same time these same people went out the door! Well for some strange reason it has fallen on it's A$$!!!! My, Oh my! I wonder why???
Latent unionism?
MCI transplant
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<_< Bob-- The IAM pension fund? I guess they what to make sure you are just that! "Retired!" before funding any money! You've heard the saying, "Good news, Bad news!" Well the good news in this is there were 107 "Stand in steeds" take the place of younger workers on this RIF!!! The Bad news is that even though they were some of the older workers, they were also some of the most experianced and therefore most productive! The "People up north", thing was a quote from our brothers down in TUL, refuring to us at MCIE!!! :down: Well they've "almost" got the job done!!! Can this be another example of TWU, and CO. working hand in hand???? Getting back on subject!!! It seems a new contract was signed last week, before the RIF, to do 5 more 767 Pylon mods. for Capital Air here at MCI in AUG/Sept.! But we've had one of their planes setting here for over two weeks waiting on Engines from our brothers in TUL! They can't seem to get their act together!!! Plus 5 "C" checks!! They say it'll save about 30 jobs for at least a year! But when asked way these people were let go now, and new work announced after the RIF, the silence was deffening!!!! 😉
MCI transplant,Jun 16 2005, 06:06 AM]
<_< Bob-- The IAM pension fund? I guess they what to make sure you are just that! "Retired!" before funding any money!
Well thats bull. If you put your years in and are of age you should be allowed to collect. I wonder if the pension for the International is under the same criteria?
You've heard the saying, "Good news, Bad news!" Well the good news in this is there were 107 "Stand in steeds" take the place of younger workers on this RIF!!! The Bad news is that even though they were some of the older workers, they were also some of the most experianced and therefore most productive!
The bad news is also that most probably had more than 13 weeks in sick time built up so they didnt really gain anything by using the SIS.
The "People up north", thing was a quote from our brothers down in TUL, refuring to us at MCIE!!! :down: Well they've "almost" got the job done!!! Can this be another example of TWU, and CO. working hand in hand????
Probably.
Getting back on subject!!! It seems a new contract was signed last week, before the RIF, to do 5 more 767 Pylon mods. for Capital Air here at MCI in AUG/Sept.! But we've had one of their planes setting here for over two weeks waiting on Engines from our brothers in TUL! They can't seem to get their act together!!!
Well this way down the road they can say how Tulsa got their airplane out two weeks early but MCIE got theirs out late (they will omit the part about the engines from Tulsa being late). At the recent Presidents meeting in NY Arpey reportedly was raving about how Tulsa was going to be a profit center, I didnt hear anything about MCI.
Maybe a few of you guys should fly down to Tulsa and go to Arpeys meeting and confront him?
Plus 5 "C" checks!! They say it'll save about 30 jobs for at least a year! But when asked way these people were let go now, and new work announced after the RIF, the silence was deffening!!!!
Suprised?
<_< Bob-- The IAM pension fund? I guess they what to make sure you are just that! "Retired!" before funding any money!
Well thats bull. If you put your years in and are of age you should be allowed to collect. I wonder if the pension for the International is under the same criteria?
You've heard the saying, "Good news, Bad news!" Well the good news in this is there were 107 "Stand in steeds" take the place of younger workers on this RIF!!! The Bad news is that even though they were some of the older workers, they were also some of the most experianced and therefore most productive!
The bad news is also that most probably had more than 13 weeks in sick time built up so they didnt really gain anything by using the SIS.
The "People up north", thing was a quote from our brothers down in TUL, refuring to us at MCIE!!! :down: Well they've "almost" got the job done!!! Can this be another example of TWU, and CO. working hand in hand????
Probably.
Getting back on subject!!! It seems a new contract was signed last week, before the RIF, to do 5 more 767 Pylon mods. for Capital Air here at MCI in AUG/Sept.! But we've had one of their planes setting here for over two weeks waiting on Engines from our brothers in TUL! They can't seem to get their act together!!!
Well this way down the road they can say how Tulsa got their airplane out two weeks early but MCIE got theirs out late (they will omit the part about the engines from Tulsa being late). At the recent Presidents meeting in NY Arpey reportedly was raving about how Tulsa was going to be a profit center, I didnt hear anything about MCI.
Maybe a few of you guys should fly down to Tulsa and go to Arpeys meeting and confront him?
Plus 5 "C" checks!! They say it'll save about 30 jobs for at least a year! But when asked way these people were let go now, and new work announced after the RIF, the silence was deffening!!!!
Suprised?
