AA targeting third party component work

[DNTULSA]

If American wishes to acquire outside Integrated Drive Unit, Constant Speed Drive and Generator contracts, they are going to have to buy up to date Test Cell Equipment.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[odie01]

Bob, concerning Delta's engine work, TAESL does all of Delta's 777 Trent 895 engines. TAESL also does all of the UPS RB211-535 and Fed Ex RB211-535 for the their 757's, and also several brand X RB211 engines. I guess it's because our Twu labor costs are so low, TAESL makes millions off our backs.

Just got the Continental contract for RB211's, also do US Air, Rolls, Royal Air New Zeland, ect. We made money last year, and rumor has it that AA is getting their RB's overhauled for free, with all of the contract work being done.

 

[eolesen]

If that's the case, it's a great deal for AA...

How many other RR overhaul shops are there in North America? That's probably the driving factor more than price, especially if they're on power by the hour...

 

[MCI transplant]

If that's the case, it's a great deal for AA...

How many other RR overhaul shops are there in North America? That's probably the driving factor more than price, especially if they're on power by the hour...

<_< ------- Well, at one time, MCI overhauled RR 211 engines. They powered our L1011''s. -------But alas, that's ancient history now! 😉

 

[Hackman]

If that's the case, it's a great deal for AA...

How many other RR overhaul shops are there in North America? That's probably the driving factor more than price, especially if they're on power by the hour...

Rolls has a facility in Canada, I don't think they have a Test Cell large enough that can handle the Trent, I could be wrong.

From RR Canada website:

In Canada, Rolls-Royce is recognized for its expertise in engineering and repair and overhaul in the Aerospace and Energy businesses.

In Canada, Rolls-Royce began operations at Montréal Dorval Airport in 1947, supporting the Merlin engine used by TransCanada Airlines and the Royal Canadian Air Forces. Today, Rolls-Royce is a diversified aero and industrial engine company employing 1,400 people at facilities in Montréal, Quebec and Vancouver, British Columbia. These facilities serve more than 600 operators in 30 countries worldwide with customers that include airlines, corporate operators and government bodies.

The Montréal facility is the largest of seven Rolls-Royce Canadian sites with capabilities that include repair and overhaul on civil and military aero engines, with over 5,000 engines serviced to date. The plant occupies more than 500,000 square feet and is equipped with five engine test cells, the largest capable of testing up to 100,000lbs of thrust. This site is an authorized maintenance center for the BR710, BR715, AE3007, Spey, Tay, and the V2500 engines. As a Center of Excellence for the repair of fan blades, combustion chambers and turbine blade and vanes, the company offers component repair services for a wide range of Rolls-Royce products.

The company’s energy business unit, also based in Montréal, is the world wide research and development, manufacturing and support center for the industrial Trent and RB211 gas turbines, used for power generation and oil and gas applications in over 120 countries.

The Vancouver-based Marine Propulsion division manufactures steerable azimuthing thrusters, which replace a conventional propeller, rudder and reduction gearbox with an integrated unit that performs both steering and propulsion functions.

 

[TWU informer]

Stupid Asses

AA cannot even do their own engine work properly and on schedule.

Why the hell would you buy into the third party work manipulation once again?

How many times do you have to take the baited hook and be cleaned of guts and flesh?

I-D-I-O-T-S

This thread reminds me of a bunch of dumbass Lemmings running towards the cliff at full speed!

 

[eolesen]

Thanks Hack. I'd forgotten about YUL (I even drove past it three months ago...). Bombardier uses GE CF34's on their CRJ's, but the Rolls BR700's on their corporate jets. God help anyone still using Speys, and the Tays are pretty much extinct as well, except for the few former AA and US F100's still flying in Mexico and South America...

 

[Bob Owens]

If that's the case, it's a great deal for AA...

Yes it is a great deal for AA, the only problem for us is AA uses all the costs related to that production against us in Negotiations.

All those engines we rebuild have associated costs and dont add one ASM to our calculation but those costs get charged against the ASMs. Same goes for all the rest of the 3P work. In Europe our mechanics do more 3P work than AA work and they earn around $12/hr more than we do, so figure for every 10 mechanics they have over there they add at least $1,000,000/year in labor costs to the total. Sure they add revenue but AA doesnt like to talk about their revenue, only costs, in fact they admit that they have a "Revenue Premium", They only want to talk about how our Labor costs stick out compared to competitors who outsource most of their work and do very little 3P work. I've been told that Delta does a lot of 3P work but they also act like a middle man, they contract to do a check, then outsource much of the work to other vendors, so it may look like they do a lot of 3P work and still have much fewer mechanics than AA but thats due to this little slight of hand. The same source also told me that a while back a customer (Spanish airline?)objected to that and demanded that all of the work be done by Delta Mechanics and that threw Delta for a loop because they werent prepared for that.

For three years management has refused to give us cost outs, in fact they accepted the Unions cost outs on the proposal "as is", didnt challenge one figure, even though there is at least one blatent error. (Hmm, makes you wonder doesn't it?) So the labor costs for all those Engines we build for all those other carriers gets tapped onto AA labor costs, same for materials etc, once again distorting the figures, those costs inflate our Maintenance materials and Labor CASMs. So when we bring up the fact that we make much less than others they insist that we should not look at the obvious (what we are paid per hourand instead look at a total thats totally distorted because of our much higher rates of doing work in house along with the 3P work we do. On top of all that they are also used to inflate the so called "$600 Million Labor Cost Disadvantage".

Things as they are I'd rather that AA give up the 3P work, not hire the 900 heads they are looking to add, and give us a better wage. In reality those things probably enable AA to pay us more but they refuse to acknowledge that and instead spin the advantage around and make it look like a disadvantage so I say "Get rid of it". If they did that then truer numbers would be out there and they would have a harder time justfying their insistance that we accept being at the bottom of the list of Bankrupt carriers. For the most Junior guys who may end up getting laid off (doubtful because the company claims they do not staff for 3P work anyway) they wont have to wait long if they want to come back because there's a long list of guys that want to get out once we get a contract.

I'm more than willing to do 3P work, bring in extra revenue for the company, allow the company to utilize us more efficiently with out adding extra heads, and help AAs bottom line, but not if they turn around and use it against me, play with the numbers saying "we employ more mechanics than any other carrier, therefore you should work for less than any other carrier" (What am I a f*cking widget?), "Our labor costs are higher than any other carrier so you have to work for less so we can match their labor costs (despite the fact their competitors dont do as much 3P work and send out the majority of their own work) and "Our CASMS are not competative and when you look at the costs related to that Labor costs stands out compared to our competitors (even though they run their business differently) so we cant pay you a decent wage". The saying is "dont piss on my back and tell me its raining". If these things are going to get thrown into the costs then used against me, when in fact I'm helping to generate even more revenue, then srew it, I don't want it.

The company admitted that of the $600 million they claim they are disadvantaged that only around $100 million of that is from M&R. Thats only around 1300 mechanics, around the same number of people we have without system protection right now, so its not our contract that puts them at a disadvantage, if a disadvantage really exists at all, its their choice. The fact that the number is so small if anything reveals that AA's actual maintenance costs, once you factor in how much we do in house and out the 3P and all the optional stuff they are doing are probably very competative. UAL claimed that their outsourced maintenance costs alone was 13% of the companys total operating costs in 2007, they still do 59% (as of 2010 assuming that has not changed significantly)of their overhaul in house and once they finish the merger with CO will have 2760 base mechanics (we have 5776). If 41% (2010)of their maintenance costs makes up 13% of their total operating costs in 2007-before fuel went up then maintenance costs then their total maintenance costs once you add in the 59% they spend in house would come out to around 30% of total costs. I beleieve that even in 2007, with all the 3P and optional work (wingletts, new interiors etc) taken out, our total maintenance costs were less than 30% of our total operational costs.

 

[Hackman]

Stupid Asses

AA cannot even do their own engine work properly and on schedule.

Why the hell would you buy into the third party work manipulation once again?

How many times do you have to take the baited hook and be cleaned of guts and flesh?

I-D-I-O-T-S

This thread reminds me of a bunch of dumbass Lemmings running towards the cliff at full speed!

Just to be perfectly clear, when you speak of "dumbass lemmings" and "idiots" I assume your speaking about our wonderful overpaid and inept mAAnagement team or their worthless Twu International company union friends?

 

[Birdman]

Bob, do you really think the compAAny needs 900 heads? I think not and believe AA knows the TWU will double their efforts to sell any agreement that will win 51% approval, salivating for that additional dues $$$$.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, do you really think the compAAny needs 900 heads? I think not and believe AA knows the TWU will double their efforts to sell any agreement that will win 51% approval, salivating for that additional dues $$$$.

AA loses around 500 mechanics a year, So just to maintain headcount they need 500, my guess is that when we get a contract we may see a surge, possibly double that. But I dont think that 900 would be enough to get that 51% .

I know some people are getting anxious, but CO raised the bar slightly after we rejected our TA, sadly they accepted it but its just a transitional deal so the fact they settled for so little really doesnt mean much, UAL just raised it a little more with their TA but from what I hear that TA is likely to go down in flames. That would be good news for us if they do. I think more and more the BS arguement that we cant compare ourselve to WN, Fed Ex and UPS is losing its validity as well.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

AA loses around 500 mechanics a year, So just to maintain headcount they need 500, my guess is that when we get a contract we may see a surge, possibly double that. But I dont think that 900 would be enough to get that 51% .

I know some people are getting anxious, but CO raised the bar slightly after we rejected our TA, sadly they accepted it but its just a transitional deal so the fact they settled for so little really doesnt mean much, UAL just raised it a little more with their TA but from what I hear that TA is likely to go down in flames. That would be good news for us if they do. I think more and more the BS arguement that we cant compare ourselve to WN, Fed Ex and UPS is losing its validity as well.

I'm hearig the UAL t/a is going to die. Seems as if colored flyers inserted into a ballot, aka twu style, isn't going to help pass the UAL t/a so the union there is delaying the vote to help press for a yes vote. Hum, go figure.