Aa To Ireland This Summer?

[MAH4546]

Rumours are that American Airlines will open up Ireland service this summer pending the changing of US-Ireland bilatterals to allow San Francisco and Miami to have Ireland service. Aer Lingus would operate SFO 5x a week, while American would operate daily to MIA, to both Shannon and Dublin, with 763s (MIA-SNN-DUB-MIA 3x weekly; MIA-DUB-SNN-MIA 4x weekly).

Anyone have more?

 

[Cosmo]

This sounds like an interesting rumor, and it would certainly be real good for both MIA and SFO if it occurred, but can it actually happen now that the E.U. is just starting negotiations with the U.S. for a broader open skies agreement? In other words, could Ireland and the U.S. change their bilateral while E.U.-U.S. talks are taking place? Plus, even if Ireland-U.S. discussions do take place, wouldn't the U.S. push for the relaxation or elimination of the "Shannon Rule" in exchange for granting Ireland more U.S. gateways, a trade-off the Irish might not be prepared to make?

It seems to me that there are some high hurdles to overcome before this rumored service becomes a reality. JMHO.

BTW, you must be from one of the Commonwealth countries given your spelling of "rumours". True?

 

[MAH4546]

This sounds like an interesting rumor, and it would certainly be real good for both MIA and SFO if it occurred, but can it actually happen now that the E.U. is just starting negotiations with the U.S. for a broader open skies agreement? In other words, could Ireland and the U.S. change their bilateral while E.U.-U.S. talks are taking place? Plus, even if Ireland-U.S. discussions do take place, wouldn't the U.S. push for the relaxation or elimination of the "Shannon Rule" in exchange for granting Ireland more U.S. gateways, a trade-off the Irish might not be prepared to make?

It seems to me that there are some high hurdles to overcome before this rumored service becomes a reality. JMHO.

BTW, you must be from one of the Commonwealth countries given your spelling of "rumours". True?

The SNN stop is the problem. Aer Lingus has already stated they would like to add Miami and San Francisco. DOT will allow them to add Orlando and San Jose without a change to the Shannon/Dublin rule. Of course, a number of parliment members from rural Ireland won't budge on the rule. Delta has already threatened to end service to Ireland if the rule is not cut. Even with the SNN/DUB rule cut, there is no doubt Shannon would be able to support CO service to EWR, EI service to JFK and BOS, and EI/AA service to MIA. Definitley enough demand to those markets from Shannon.

You are right, however, that the EU will be taking over negotiations and hopefully the problem will be solved.

I currently live in Miami, but I grew up in Sweden, hence I did grow up using the British English style.

 

[FA Mikey]

I hear it is a beautiful place. Getting service would go a long way to help me hold something good. Not great but good.

I remember rumors from the late 90's of AA looking at adding to the BOS schedule.

 

[psa328]

Well everyone knows MIA and SFO are next to be added should agreements occur. I think MIA would push more for EI though, better to have another int'l carrier on your resume.

 

[MAH4546]

Well everyone knows MIA and SFO are next to be added should agreements occur. I think MIA would push more for EI though, better to have another int'l carrier on your resume.

Yeah, MIA will definitley push for Aer Lingus to operate the route. MIA officals met with Aer Lingus officals in Dublin about two weeks ago. They also have met with SNBrussels officals in Brussels the same trip that took them to Dublin, and are off to Lisbon next week to speak with TAP and SAETA. They are spending $600,000 to help convince carriers Miami is a good market for them. If a carrier starts service, however, there are no incentives like reduced landing fees, etc. Meetings went well in Munich, Tel Aviv, and Helsinki, so we'll see. Any MIA-BRU service would be AA, though, SNBrussels does not want to fly trans-Atlantic, even though Brussels has a gap in service to North America, notably Boston, Miami, and Montreal. If Miami gets the FTAA secretariat that they are in the running for (and they are the favourite), then American Airlines will have a goldmine of premium political traffic on MIA-BRU.

Yesterday, MIA confirmed they are in talks with a European carrier that hopes to inagurate service to Miami this spring. The leaks are that it will be bmi with MIA-MAN service, putting thier extra A330 (which is soon to be returned/has been returned from SAA) to good use.

Hopefully some hard facts behind the rumours will surface soon.

 

[AAmech]

Love to see the service but I can't belive there is enough traffic out there to support daily 767 service from Mia. I think a 757 4 or 5 X's a week would be more realistic

 

[MAH4546]

Love to see the service but I can't belive there is enough traffic out there to support daily 767 service from Mia. I think a 757 4 or 5 X's a week would be more realistic

There is, definitley. Miami is one the five biggest US O&D markets from Ireland, and Florida is the #2 US destination for Irish tourists, with most visiting Miami and Orlando in the same shot. Daily service would be supported easily. Yields would not be magnificent, though.

 

[Cosmo]

Miami is one the five biggest US O&D markets from Ireland, and Florida is the #2 US destination for Irish tourists, with most visiting Miami and Orlando in the same shot.

Mark:

I know you're a big supporter of new service to MIA but wouldn't the above quote be a strong argument for Aer Lingus starting service to both MIA and MCO, with perhaps 3 flights weekly to each destination? Another question is at the Irish end of the route -- would the flights come from SNN or DUB or some combination of the two, especially given the impact of the "Shannon Rule"? Do you have a feel about how the Florida market is divided between the two Irish airports?

 

[MAH4546]

Mark:

I know you're a big supporter of new service to MIA but wouldn't the above quote be a strong argument for Aer Lingus starting service to both MIA and MCO, with perhaps 3 flights weekly to each destination? Another question is at the Irish end of the route -- would the flights come from SNN or DUB or some combination of the two, especially given the impact of the "Shannon Rule"? Do you have a feel about how the Florida market is divided between the two Irish airports?

I totally agree that MIA/MCO as a split service would work very well. There is no doubt in my mind. The main problem is, that, as of now, there is no way Aer Lingus is getting both. MIA is the obvious preference with higher yields and one-stop oneWorld connections throughout the Caribbean and Latin America, as well as Orlando, Tampa, Ft. Meyers, and the Keys. Though if Aer Lingus could get both, they would serve both in a heartbeat, likely a split service as you suggest. Without the 50/50 agreement, I also think Shannon would likely have no problem keeping it's services to Boston and JFK on Aer Lingus, and Continental and USAirways would likely still serve Shannon as well. Baltimore, Los Angeles (which has stopped in DUB both ways for about a year now), Atlanta, and O'Hare service would likely be out. It not only hurts Dublin, but even AI, who has to fly half/quarter empty A330s a minimal distance between DUB and SNN.

I think the Shannon rule is pretty ridiculous and really limts the potential for Dublin to grow at the expense of getting Shannon some flights. However, 50/50 rule or not, Miami (as well as Orlando) would easily support both markets non-stop, I would think the flight would be routed MIA-SNN-DUB 2x a week and MIA-DUB-SNN 3x a week. Miami has had SNN service in the past, as recent as 1998 with Aeroflot, but I don't recall DUB service.

Slighly off topic, but today Turkish carrier Atlasjet, who specializes in Turkey-Germany charter flights, announced MIA-IST. Schedule is still pending as they have to acquire the aircraft, likely an A340. They hope to start-up in time to get traffic during the December rush, when many Miami area Turks (2nd largest Turk population in the Americas) go home for the holiday break.

 

[Bob Owens]

Mark:

I know you're a big supporter of new service to MIA but wouldn't the above quote be a strong argument for Aer Lingus starting service to both MIA and MCO, with perhaps 3 flights weekly to each destination? Another question is at the Irish end of the route -- would the flights come from SNN or DUB or some combination of the two, especially given the impact of the "Shannon Rule"? Do you have a feel about how the Florida market is divided between the two Irish airports?

I'd love to see it too but is there really such a demand for SNN?

Come winter time is about as hot of a destination as Greenland.

Ever been to Ireland in the Winter? You feel like you are stuck in a film noir. Wet and dark. DUB sure, in the Winter you can enjoy the nightlife in the middle of the day, big city, lots to do, the majority of the entire island live near Dublin, they could support it but SNN? Stick with the codeshare, as much as I would like to see it I dont want to take another pay cut so they can do it.

 

[MAH4546]

Mark:

I know you're a big supporter of new service to MIA but wouldn't the above quote be a strong argument for Aer Lingus starting service to both MIA and MCO, with perhaps 3 flights weekly to each destination? Another question is at the Irish end of the route -- would the flights come from SNN or DUB or some combination of the two, especially given the impact of the "Shannon Rule"? Do you have a feel about how the Florida market is divided between the two Irish airports?

I'd love to see it too but is there really such a demand for SNN?

Come winter time is about as hot of a destination as Greenland.

Ever been to Ireland in the Winter? You feel like you are stuck in a film noir. Wet and dark. DUB sure, in the Winter you can enjoy the nightlife in the middle of the day, big city, lots to do, the majority of the entire island live near Dublin, they could support it but SNN? Stick with the codeshare, as much as I would like to see it I dont want to take another pay cut so they can do it.

Ireland sucks in the winter, exactly. Which is why the Irish, who actually have one the highest disposable incomes in all of Europe, flock to the US (as well as the Canary Islands), especially Florida, in droves during the winter. Winter service is supported by Irish coming to the US; summer by Americans going to Ireland. This is another one where Miami has a notch over Orlando. Orlando is a market in where the European traffic in both directions is heaviest in the summer only. In Miami, Miami>>Europe traffic is heaviest during the summer and Europe>>Miami is heaviest in the winter.

One of the main reasons American has reconfigured the 767-300ERs is that the HD configuration allows American to explore new markets with little premium class demand that a three-class aircraft does not allow, such as New York City-Rome and the new daylight Miami-Sao Paulo service that starts in December.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I'd love to see it too but is there really such a demand for SNN?

Bob,

How did I know you would comment on the homeland. How about a road trip to the Mike Quill memorial, I know how to get there in County Kerry. First pint is on me.

 

[will fix for food]

How did I know you would comment on the homeland. How about a road trip to the Mike Quill memorial, I know how to get there in County Kerry. First pint is on me.

I always thought the Kerryman jokes were unfair.....I/ll let you buy me a pint for telling them......and feeling guilty about it.....

 

[Bob Owens]

[Bob,

How did I know you would comment on the homeland. How about a road trip to the Mike Quill memorial, I know how to get there in County Kerry. First pint is on me.

Sure, Quill was a great leader who fought against all the odds to improve his members lives. Not like the Quislings we have in there now. I'd like to pay respect to the man and what better way than over a Pint, or two, or three ,,,,
Slainte!



Mark in MIA;
I hope your right, it would take some of the load off the EI JFK-DUB trips so next time my family tries to go "home" they wont have to go back and forth to the Airport three times. We did not even try this year.